Patti Ketcham: A Source of Knowledge and Influence in Florida Real Estate

Tracy Hayes  1:06  
Hey folks, welcome back to real estate excellence podcast with your host. Tracy Hayes, folks, I have the best on the show today. I think she is one of the most popular, respected and desired real estate education instructors in the state of Florida. And with hands down, we know the state of Florida has the best real estate instructors in the country. A good bit of the reputation nationally comes from our guest today. Let me read some of our highlights. Awarded Florida Realtors Educator of the Year. Imagine you probably won that multiple times, not just one, just once. Shame on them. Appointed the Florida real estate commission in 2017 which you're still on. I was reappointed, reappointed. Excellent. And 2020, you were the commission chair? Yes, I was professional member of the national speaker Association. And most importantly, she is a lifetime member of the Smokey Bear Summer Reading Club, which we'll find out about that she will go down in history, I believe, as a major influencer on how real estate and buying and selling is done here in Florida. Let's welcome the best Patty Ketchum to the show. Thanks, Tracy, thank you. I

Patti Ketcham  2:05  
am honored to be here, and I've listened to your podcast, and you are getting to the bottom of the barrel. I appreciate it, and yes,

Tracy Hayes  2:14  
I think it's important. Yeah, everyone has a story, right? And, you know, and I brought on some some new agents that just brought them on the show, and because it just, they had a lot of social media influence, if you will, get the show out there. You know what I found out? You know, they have a story. Oh, yeah. And it's something that another new young person might go, You know what? She did it, or he did it. So can I right and applied themselves to their success. But I want to get started. First of all, Patty, where are you

Patti Ketcham  2:42  
from? I was born up north, not

Tracy Hayes  2:46  
you acquired that accent.

Patti Ketcham  2:48  
I earned this now. I was born in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, so that's why I put a lot of syllables in all the words.

Tracy Hayes  2:55  
So I noticed on your LinkedIn, it's Florida State, not Alabama, though.

Patti Ketcham  3:00  
Yeah, I'm a graduate of FSU. My parents were both professors there. That's what got us to Tallahassee. Is when the college of business started and they were hiring. They hired my dad. Excellent.

Tracy Hayes  3:11  
Yeah, excellent. I can guess what your major was in, but tell me, Oh, it

Patti Ketcham  3:14  
was criminology and psychology. I was there. I would never guess that such a waste of good tuition money.

Tracy Hayes  3:21  
I always thought I should be a psychology major. I Oh, that part was fun. Yeah, I love, I love watching, observing people. I understand why they do some of the things that they they do. Have you applied some of that to your career? No, not at all.

Patti Ketcham  3:36  
Well, I could train a rat, because that was the big thing when I was in college is, you know, it was the reality therapy and training rap, so I could do that. And I can't really think how I've used that in real estate. No, quite frankly, no,

Tracy Hayes  3:50  
well, I could. But all right, so we got to get in the question, because I put it right here early, because I when I, when I went through your LinkedIn, or actually wasn't your LinkedIn, was your Florida Realtors kind of resume there, the lifetime member of the Smokey Bear.

Patti Ketcham  4:03  
Summary, okay, this is one of my fun things. Is life when everybody in life is when everybody else goes right, I try to go left. So, you know, they like, Oh, you have to write these resumes and tell how you are. And I'm like, nobody reads that crap. Nobody reads it. So I did an experiment. I put graduate of FSU, and then I put lifetime member Smokey Bear Summer Reading Club to see if anyone ever mentioned it, right, I proved myself right. No one's ever mentioned it until you Tracy, but I am a lifetime member of the Smokey Bear reading club. I have a certificate that says so. It is signed by Smokey the Bear. And when I was seven years old, I read 10 books on nature conservation. I try

Tracy Hayes  4:46  
to dig a little bit on my guess to find little things like that, because that's what makes people interesting, and that's an interesting story. You're Harper said, right. I mean, people throw something on there to get someone to remember you, and when someone sees. That, yeah, I can see you being in an interview and song. They'll never forget you after you tell the story. Right? She had, I believe that that, that that person had that crazy book club on there. What was that all about? They don't forget you. So you went, you go to Florida State. You're studying criminology and psychology. I mean, what did you envisioning yourself

Patti Ketcham  5:21  
doing honestly and truly, I was not interested at all in the law enforcement part of it that did not interest me. I was going to Save the Children, you know, I wanted to be in child protective custody, that kind of stuff. Well, unfortunately, back in the way college was set up, as you interned the quarter before you graduated, we were on the quarter system then, so I went and interned, and it was awful. And I realized I can't do this. I would be crying all the time. I'd bring home every child. This is not going to work. So it was too late then, so I just went on to graduate in criminology, and then never looked back. It's just it wasn't the right fit for me. Yeah,

Tracy Hayes  6:01  
yeah. I kind of find a guy was an education major, actually, and I found this kind of the same thing. And I kind of got in sales right out of college, went back and did a year teaching. I was in between jobs. I'm like, Yeah, this, this isn't I'm old school. Yeah, you know these kids, unfortunately today, they're different. Mo, I grew up, if they weren't in your face, it's because I didn't care. Once they were in your face, care now if you're in someone's face, you're trying to put them down, right? It's completely the opposite turn around. Yeah? So yeah, I quickly realized Yeah, that didn't get too far from right. I think, I think it's a lot for I mean, I don't know what the percentage of college grads that are doing, what they actually studied, they should be studying real estate and things like that. Oh, yeah, as obviously a great income careers. You started catching Realty Group, if I started back in about 99

Patti Ketcham  6:44  
Yeah, about started centered. So,

Tracy Hayes  6:47  
so what did you do? You know, after FSU learning, you didn't want to do that anymore. What were you what are some of the careers that you dabbled in?

Patti Ketcham  6:55  
Well, the way I got into real estate is my husband and I bet when we were 14, yeah, and

Tracy Hayes  7:02  
get married in Alabama.

Patti Ketcham  7:10  
We We moved to Florida when I was five or four or five, so we're okay there, but when he wanted to be a real estate appraiser, and so when we first got married, we went to the public library, to the reference section and looked up how to be a real estate appraiser. And I mean, this was old school. Talk about old school. And so he chose that career path and said, and back then, you had to be a broker. First you went, got your real estate license, and then you became an appraiser. Oh yeah, this was quite a while ago, yeah. And so he but we were starting to have children, and he said we were married by Ben BOMA. But he said, you know, you really ought to go do real estate, because our concept was, you did it. He would watch the kids, and I would sell real estate on nights and weekends, because

Tracy Hayes  7:59  
give him his orders on Monday,

Patti Ketcham  8:02  
and so I took my real estate exam two weeks later, had our third child. So I have a very different attitude than a lot of brokers do now about part time realtors, because I was that part time realtor for years, and this part time realtor who didn't know any better. I mean, you don't know what you don't know. First year, I sold a vacant lot, I think. And then the next year I was with you, got to find your tribe. And I found my tribe the next year, and so went to my first open house I ever did one in my house. I mean, I didn't meet listings. Four people came. I sold three of them houses. I didn't

Unknown Speaker  8:41  
know any better. You. And

Patti Ketcham  8:43  
so I was very fortunate to not know any better and to do really well for a while. And it allowed me to be a mom and a wife and sell real estate part time, but you have to sell several estate in the market you're in, and in that market, people that do real estate on nights and weekends. So I have a tender heart for people that come and go out of this profession.

Speaker 1  9:08  
How this is a question I don't even have on my list, but one I often ask when I'm talking to some of the younger realtors that may be doing it two or three years in our full time, how important you think it is you had your your husband's income coming? How important is to have that mindset that, you know, well, you know, if I don't sell a house this month, we're okay. May not be as good as you'd like. Why? Because you want to sell a house.

Speaker 2  9:30  
But, oh, it's awful that if, yeah, yeah, eating, if you don't sell,

Patti Ketcham  9:35  
right? And I tell you, and a lot of this is just, you know, superstitions you make up, I still, to this day, don't know my commission until I know it's closing. You don't calculate because then your mind owns it,

Tracy Hayes  9:49  
you're already cashing the check.

Patti Ketcham  9:52  
Yep, I'm never calculate my commission till it's done. No, I and when I say done, I mean, I'm sitting in the parking lot getting ready to walk upstairs. The closing, yeah? From the loan

Tracy Hayes  10:01  
officer side. For me, it's, you can ask me, like, how many loans you have in process? How many loans are you supposed to close this month? You know that are in price. You know, should close work with the builder so they get bumped out. But I could tell you a number, but I don't, I don't look at the volume, right? Is what I get paid off of. I don't calculate, yeah, I'm gonna make this. I don't think about that, that will get deposited into my account, right, right month, yeah.

Patti Ketcham  10:22  
But talking about being a loan officer, I did that real realtor stuff part time until the children started school. Then I went into mortgage banking. I was in that for 15 years. Oh, wow, yeah, yeah. The 80s and the 90s, I was in mortgage banking.

Tracy Hayes  10:35  
So doing as loan officer, loan officer, residential loan officer. So what made you branch over and jump into the being an agent? So hanging, hanging there, I'm

Patti Ketcham  10:45  
telling you. And I mean this sincerely, it was a, you know, how you have these defining moments. I was the first female president of the Mortgage Bankers Association, Tallahassee, and I was up there, you know, leading a meeting. And I looked out and I thought, there's not another female out here that likes her husband and has children, interesting. That is a tough career. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I to the audience out there, y'all need to pray for your mortgage loan officers, because this they are not happy and there is not enough money to make it okay, what they're having to go through. It's tough. Yeah,

Tracy Hayes  11:23  
I've been following and if you know Carl white mortgage market animals. He lives in Palm Harbor. He has a large brokerage there. But he really preaches the way he's been able to stay in the loan world is that he only he takes Friday, Saturday, Sunday, off. Good for him. And if he's got he now on Thursday, he sends a message out to his agent. Said, Hey, you got somebody you're showing a house to this weekend. Let's get them pre called now, don't call me on Saturday evening at six o'clock, you know, and try to get the prequel, which a lot of loan officers, we want to make ourselves so available to that real estate agent because that real estate agent didn't get them prequel. But now all of a sudden, Saturday night, they want to make an offer, and we don't have the pre call to get, you know, I get it, you

Patti Ketcham  12:03  
know, and we'll turn on you for an eighth of a point. Yeah, yeah. We have no loyalty

Tracy Hayes  12:08  
or their word I want to use, but their client that's not so perfect, and comes off the tracks, and that's, that's our fault, of course, it's going to the next loan officer.

Patti Ketcham  12:20  
Now, I lived it for 15 years, and when the children got old enough to drive, you know, I wanted, I thought I'd go back into real estate, you know, because it's real estate, even though people go into it because it provides you freedom, which it really does not, but it wasn't. I didn't have somebody expecting me to be there from eight o'clock to five o'clock. And I'm telling you, and I mean this at all seriousness, people that have friends that are mortgage lending, you need to check on them. They're not okay.

Tracy Hayes  12:51  
It's tough. I think I'm okay. Oh yeah. Well, my wife has gotten into real estate in last couple years and has done is doing really well. She just has a very we're totally opposite. I'm a high D, yeah, yeah, she's probably a medium D, but she's definitely higher in the C, in that this category, attention to detail, right? Really fruited her referral after referrals. You know, she's not buying leads or anything. She's and she knows, you know, I'm doing well, it's snowballed. I told her to take the month of August off. That was her biggest

Unknown Speaker  13:18  
month, right, right, right, that kind of thing.

Tracy Hayes  13:21  
So you get out alone, you just went and formed Ketchum road. Or did you go work for someone under another brokerage and then slowly move into Ketchum? Or,

Patti Ketcham  13:28  
well, the back story to it was, I was working as a loan officer to awesome people. I mean, I had not been thinking about leaving. I'd had that defining moment, but I hadn't acted on it. You know, I was happy where I was, but we had a guy murdered in the appraisal firm. Oh my goodness, yeah. And so that changes everything. So I quit my job at the bank to go in because clay now had to do his job, plus Mike's job. And so I went in to take off all the administrative stuff and help run the appraisal firm. So that kind of shook me away from mortgage lending. And then when you know you're able to get our feet back under us and get things settled down with the appraisal firm, I thought, Well, I'm not gonna go back to mortgage lending. And that's when we started catching royalty. And for the longest time, I just taught and took care of my people. And people say, I want to join your firm. I go, No, no, you can't. So and I still remember, and believe it or not, their license is still with me. Two of the girls I was teaching came and sat down and said, No, seriously, we really want to come to work for you. Please, please, please. And so you know, and there you go.

Tracy Hayes  14:39  
Just slowly grew. So how many, how many, how many agents right now do you have? Think I've got

Patti Ketcham  14:43  
29 about 10 of them work right, right?

Tracy Hayes  14:47  
Standard numbers. So we talked about earlier, people over property. Where did you come up with that?

Patti Ketcham  14:55  
Well, I wish I could say I invented it, but, you know, it's rip off a do. Okay, but because that's a concept that many real estate firms have, and it's just where your priorities, and for me, if we make friends, the rest of it will take care of itself, right?

Tracy Hayes  15:11  
Yeah, I see too many Well, of course, listening to some stuff my wife's on and in some agents, you know, whether they're on both sides of the deal or, you know what, instead of just finding that client their home, they're happy, hopefully that client, whether they buy another home, they refer front that client becomes multiple deals, just by because you do the right thing every time. And I'm in a lot of stuff I'm listening in the podcast today is all about that relationship building and taking the time build the relationships if you want the longevity, right, if you're working so you can feed yourself next month. You don't always have that people

Patti Ketcham  15:50  
Exactly, exactly, exactly

Tracy Hayes  15:52  
what you're out here educating. You're one of the most popular educators in Florida, if not the most popular. And I've heard you say you've actually gone to other states and done some stuff too. What are things that you do to keep your sword sharp? I mean, are you a reader or podcast listener? What do you

Patti Ketcham  16:10  
always tell people I work really hard to make it look easy? Yes. I mean, there's a lot of back work that goes on to make it look like it just flows. When I go to teach the GRI series, or any of the CE, I know that stuff cold before I get up. I mean, you need to teach it that the PowerPoint doesn't work and all the electricity goes out. So if you, if you're using someone's valuable money and their time, you better deliver the goods. And so I made sure, and I've had a couple of classes where I've told Florida realtors, I go take my name off this class because he we I just don't like it. And it's not the class, it's me, right? Yeah, you don't like the way it's structured, yeah? And I can tell, I can tell when I'm delivering it I'm not comfortable, yeah, yeah. So I don't wing it. It feels like I'm winging it a lot, I think because I have a very casual delivery. But on we I mean, I know what's coming up on the next page. You know so and to be a good presenter in the education field, you better know that stuff better than anybody sitting in the audience, and always realize there's somebody in the audience that knows it better than you, and you got to win them over that they think you got street grid

Tracy Hayes  17:22  
when you're presenting your some of these, you know, these agents that are just coming up because, I don't know, my personal feeling, I guess, if I angle, my question is, some of them just show up because they're required to take what would you what would you tell the person? Because obviously, you're, like, 40 some classes that you're by Florida Realtors approved to teach you're out here every day. How important is you need to have your standard hours. You probably should be going and grabbing everything you can.

Patti Ketcham  17:51  
Right, right? How important? Well, I tell them, Don't be me. I mean, don't be me, because when I first got into real estate, that first 10 years or so, I didn't darken the door of the association. I mean, I wasn't engaged in it. Didn't have a need for it, period, not, you know, and then we always talk about in leadership roles, somebody asked, you know, said, Would you be interested in doing this? And so I found myself moving in that governance direction, kind of and I think, oh my gosh, all the friendships I never made because I wasn't involved. So I try to really tell people, don't be me. You know, go out there at the very beginning and use every tool you're given, and you'll figure out the ones that are good for you and the ones that aren't good now, but you might need them later. Make friends with the people around you, because these fellow realtors are the ones that gonna seal your success or seal your failure. It's not your buyers and sellers, it's fellow realtors. Would

Tracy Hayes  18:49  
you agree that? Well, I think some people come in and see other realtors as actually competition, when, when really you know you grow from each other and the energy around, my gosh, yeah, being around, obviously you want to be around another successful realtor, right? Don't yourself up with someone who's not but right, to go and be in that group, whether they're set persons with Keller Williams, essence, with Coldwell Banker, doesn't matter, right? Be in the room because they're a top

Patti Ketcham  19:16  
people want to do business with people they know and trust. Buyers and sellers do, and so do other realtors. And always tell people, because I teach a lot of the orientation classes and the contracts classes in my local board, and I go, Tallahassee is still a fairly small town, and if five years from now, nobody likes you, it's you. It ain't us, it's you. So that ability to make friends and relationships with other realtors. You figure out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. And it just is so powerful. And so if I can encourage people like I said, Don't be me. Be better than me. Start doing this at the very beginning. You know, at the very beginning you're not, probably not doing a lot of business. Get. A button class. Go to contract class every time that door opens, because the strongest tool you've got is that contract and I know nefar has their own

Tracy Hayes  20:07  
take the class several times because, oh my gosh, inches and inches. You only learn so much, right?

Patti Ketcham  20:12  
And there's gonna be somebody in class that's gonna raise their hand and ask a question, and you're gonna have what I call the oh crap moment, where you go, crap. I never thought of that, yeah, oh, crap, that's great. So the one that thing that levels the playing field between the brand new realtor and somebody's been doing this for years and years and years is that contract. And the one thing the new realtor brings to the table that the guy that's been doing this forever, Dutton, is this. It's a blank slate. That new realtor is a blank slate, and they don't have to unlearn bad habits.

Tracy Hayes  20:43  
Is there someone today? Because obviously a lot of people look up to you. You're you know where you've gone, and in Your presence in the real estate world, and we just even just look at the state of Florida. But is there someone that you look up to as a resource, someone that you, oh

Patti Ketcham  20:57  
my gosh, how long have you got? I mean just tons of people, I mean, people in Tallahassee that I just admire so much, people over here in Jacksonville that I make sure that if I'm here, we try to meet. I've been very fortunate enough to meet people around the state. And I tell you one of the coolest things, and this is why I encourage people to build that network of outside your own board. Also is sometimes people will be more honest with you, like I'm able to call a broker in Fort Lauderdale and say, How do you do your commission splits? Talk to me about this. How, how do you make sure you handle such and such fairly? Where, in Tallahassee, that might not be as well received. I wouldn't feel as comfortable doing that, but I call Christine Hanson is

Tracy Hayes  21:41  
technically a competitor, but they're not worried about you

Patti Ketcham  21:45  
exactly, exactly and and when I was setting up my real estate firm, I purposely did that. I called a broker I trusted in Lee County, in Fort Myers, I called a broker. I thought, well, of in Fort Lauderdale, I called the broker over here in Jacksonville, and said, How do y'all do these things? I

Tracy Hayes  22:02  
can go throw this in here, because it made me think of as, you know, the you being on the Florida real estate commission and everything. And I know there's some things you guys are working on and in Tallahassee, what are some things that you'd like to tell some of the listeners, the things that you're working on and things that you're trying to get past, I guess, you know, in Tallahassee, what are some things you're

Patti Ketcham  22:22  
moving on right now? It is, oh, man, I could do this for three hours.

Tracy Hayes  22:27  
Keep it on the surface. Tracy, I know, yeah,

Patti Ketcham  22:31  
one of the things that is critical to understand, if you you know you're chosen to serve on a real estate commission or an account of Commissioner board or stuff disappointed by the governor, that's your boss, and they can fire you. Also they can take you off. So whether you agree or disagree with whoever happens to be in office at that time, this is their time to implement what they think is important. So what I'm doing to the long way around to say this is, when you have a governor that the second, second month in office, they have a deregulator on I mean, that's what he called it in Orlando, and they said, I want all the boards and associations to come here, because he felt very strongly that don't be a barrier to business. I appreciate that. As a business person, bring it on. So you have the real estate community, where many of us go, it needs to be harder. We need to make it harder. It's too easy to get in. I think we all agree with that. But then you've also got the political force that this is their time to shine that says don't interfere with private enterprise, don't necessarily over regulate things. So that's a hard balance to take. And can I give you some numbers? This is gonna blow you away. So when I first got into this, I started watching how many people were taking the exam, and it was roughly, and I'm talking to sales associate real estate exam statewide was around 3000 a month for like, two three years, pandemic hit. We went to seven to 8000 a month. Wow, yeah. Now it took a while. You know that when it first hit, everything shut down for a while, and they kind of opened back up. So last month, the Commission met last month, and there were over 8000 people last month in the state of Florida that took the sales

Tracy Hayes  24:26  
Association. I have my idea. But what do you think? What do you what do you think?

Patti Ketcham  24:29  
Well, I think people were home. They didn't have anything to do and and here's, let's cut to the chase. Here they think that. I think the general public, our sellers, certainly do that when we close a house that cost $100,000 that I got a check with my name on it for $6,000 yeah, yeah. I mean, they think this is yeah, good money. Let's get involved. Yeah, yeah. And so I don't, I think a lot of people go into it thinking the money is that they don't have the right because you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. And so it appears to be. Be a fun job. It is. It's awesome. If you're good in this It ruins you for ever having a regular job. Never go to work for the state, so you would be a terrible employee. That's

Tracy Hayes  25:12  
why a lot of teachers become real estate agents, not real estate. Oh my gosh.

Patti Ketcham  25:15  
And I'm telling you, give me somebody in retail, give me a school teacher, give me somebody that's in the nursing thing. The people that have that passion for people and are problem solvers make incredible realtors. But I think a lot of people this pandemic made a re evaluate life, whether they wanted to or not. And I think a lot of them said, I'm going to go drive real estate. And I think that's awesome. And I have you hear other realtors say we need to cut the numbers, and y'all our best advertising is bad, realtors.

Speaker 1  25:48  
That's true too. Do you think it because we are fortunate here in Florida, unlike a lot of other states that obviously people still kept coming in? Oh yeah, I don't even know what it was before the pandemic, I know like 900 to 1000 a day. Now what is, I think

Patti Ketcham  26:05  
it's a lot more than I don't track that, but I can tell you, on the real estate commission, we have a substantially increased number of brokers mutual recognition coming here from out of state, right coming in as a broker, and they'll stand right there and say, y'all didn't close down. My state closed down, right? And we now have more licensees than California. And that's never happened before.

Tracy Hayes  26:29  
That's amazing. The numbers, I remember talking about that in August, when you're going in and you're talking, you know, 3040, rulers, I don't know how many you had today in your class, no matter what the course is, what is your mindset at the end of the day that you want them to lead with?

Patti Ketcham  26:45  
I kind of want to tell them the stuff nobody else is telling them, because there's people that can do sales way better than me, and there's people that can do marketing way better than me, but I think sometimes they need a truth teller that doesn't have a dog in the fight, and as I told them today, I said, you can't join my firm. I am not recruiting you here, because it's really important. They know that, and I get but it's one of the rules. As a matter of fact, if you teach, you have to say, there is no recruiting. And I go, but y'all, you got to find your people. You've got to find your tribe. And we're like little ducklings and who, whichever the first broker is that walks in front of us, we follow behind them, and we think they're it. And I said, if you're at a firm and you're getting bad feelings, you need to pay attention to it, right? Because you're not doing your broker any good and you're not doing yourself any good. And I said, and as a broker, I have prayed people away so your broker is going to be fine if you leave.

Tracy Hayes  27:48  
You know, being on my side from the loan officer side. And I know involved here at nefar, involved the St John's board as well. And over the you know, because first 12 years I was in the call in a call center quick and low deep, when the call center heads it on. So I really didn't meet realtors, but the last four or five years I've been out, you know, I call it schlepping the realtors, you know, entertaining coffee, sponsoring, doing these you meet people and have conversations and how they're doing their business, and who's that, and new realtor coming on. You know, I would take a moment not only to interview brokers, but interview who they're working with, because you will find out so many of them. You know, hey, what are you looking to do? Where are you at? This person is probably the best for right? Because I, I've known them for so many years, and you know, you're going to get that person may be able to lift you from zero to something and then do what you want to do, but you're just trying to get out the gate.

Patti Ketcham  28:41  
Well, when I have somebody come talk to me, one of my rules is you have to go interview with two other brokers, I mean, and I'll give you the questions to ask, you know, because that's old teacher coming and be coming out. But I go, you got to go talk to two other people first, because we, I may not be your girl, and it's not gonna do either of us any good.

Tracy Hayes  28:59  
What do you what do you feel? Because obviously there's things like exp out here. You're in this area of Florida, homes, really, they pay a lot of commission. For an experienced realtor, I think that's you know, if you know what you're doing, you know what you're doing, you're doing your business and and obviously you want to maximize your commission. But for those really new people who might be new, even new to the area, moving from out of state. Don't have any circle of influence here at all. How important is? Maybe, maybe go in and split some of your commission and get on one of those teams and learn what's going on. How important you think that is?

Patti Ketcham  29:32  
I'm grinning because I can't believe you that was a fabulous setup. All right, so on preck, we see the worst of the worst, and I want to use your time to set a couple of rumors straight that I think will help people. I will ask often in class, how many of you have been told if you use the word client or you use the word customer and you use it incorrectly, that you'll be in. Front of the real estate commission, and I'll probably have a third of the class raise their hand and I go. I set you free. We don't care. Okay? I've been on it six years. It's never come up. Okay? We spend so much time we're majoring in minutia, right? Oh, good lord. If you look at no brokerage relationship, single agent, transaction broker, the very first thing is to treat people honestly and fairly. It's a shame we have to have a second requirement. So if long as you're following that first requirement, I'm a transaction broker. My people are clients, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't. Perhaps I'm confused on this. So at the August meeting, because we're under the sunshine, and so we really abide by that. And so I, at the end of the meeting, I opened to my fellow Commissioners, and I said, I'm going around the state saying this. I need to, y'all to tell me if I need to hush or am I right? And they go, No, you can be a transaction broker and have clients, I said, and we're not going to be nobody's gonna get in trouble here if they say the wrong word, we're not going to take them down here at freight. And they go, No, all right, so which leads me to back to your question, because thank you for letting me take that time. There is a business model that's broker for hire, broker for hire, and you pay a fee per month, and you are under this broker's license, and they provide little or no supervision or guidance, okay? And it's called broker for hire. I was in a deposition one time of the guy described himself. He said, I am a broker for hire, and I'm like, not even ashamed. This is amazing, and it's a business model and it's legal, but here's the ramifications for that, and we see it at the real estate commission. They're not watching you, because their business model is they're charging X number of dollars a month. They don't care whether you close anything or not, and they don't care what you do, but the minute you do something wrong, they turn you in to the real estate commission so they can throw up their hands and shock and awe and say to us, I had no idea they were doing that, right? We had one person that was a broker for hire that had to put the address of one of her real estate firms in her GPS to meet the investigator there, because she'd never been there. Interesting. So I just, I field a lot of questions that I always want people to be free to call, because I think sometimes you're scared to call your own broker, you know, but I know someone you should be working with, right? But even my people have called, so I can't, you know, because, like, Are you sure they're doing the right thing? Yeah. So I did get a lot of those calls, and it is all I can do not to go, baby. You need to not be all about the money here. If you're in this for a career. I mean, if you're just in it for two or three years, make as much as can till you get caught and then go down the road, you're where you ought to be. But if you're in this for the long run, and I can't say that, you know, but if you're in there for the long run, do it for the long run, find a broker you admire, go interview three of them, tell them you're interviewing three of them. You're a grown up, you'll know where you find your people. It's not about the money, it's about the relationships.

Tracy Hayes  33:11  
Yep, yep, a phrase that I learned recently when I was listening to Carl white mortgage market, animal, Caesar, you have to write little checks to cash big checks. Oh, I love that. And you know, maybe you you know to get under the right broker, because they're an agent maker has proven success. And you found this person. You go, I gotta follow that person that you may have to take some of your commission. Splits a little differently for a little while. Bless

Patti Ketcham  33:37  
their hearts. People get out of real estate school and they think they bring you their resume, and you go, Oh, boo, boo. We don't care, you know. So it's so important that they realize they pick the broker, you know, and you got to find your crowd and and so I'm pretty blunt up front, and I go, I've never made a cold call in my life. And I promise you, I will go to my grave. Never make a cold call. So my people don't make cold calls. I mean, if they want to, that's fine, but I don't look to me to train you, because I don't know how to do

Tracy Hayes  34:06  
it. I think it's always more important to the what, what clubs and organizations and things that you're important. What do you what people are you influencing? What you learned at major to NFS, you doesn't

Patti Ketcham  34:16  
matter, right? Right? And it's just, I just tell people, go, people use, people they know and trust, yep, and so and so. I'm very straightforward. I said we don't buy leads. If you're if you're need leads, you come to the wrong place, right? You know, because we don't buy leads, because I know that what some brokers do and see, this is it. I've seen the dirty side to this. There's brokers. It just this is stuff that bothers me, because nobody tells the new agents this. All right, you got a broker who's totally motivated by the Benjamins. Okay? They don't care if you succeed or not. They're in there for the Benjamins, and so they will buy us chunk of leads, and they'll use those leads for five years. Some people are

Tracy Hayes  34:58  
dead, yeah, yeah. Address. Has moved out of state, especially in

Patti Ketcham  35:01  
Florida. So and they give their baby agents, their new little ducklings that don't know nothing about nothing, yeah, and make them feel bad that they're not converting

Speaker 1  35:10  
these garbage. Thank you. Yeah, no, because, I mean, as a loan officer, some of them are actually able to get some of them on the phone, right? And, you know, because I tell them is a new agent. I said, Hey, first thing you want to see if they're qualified, you know, send them over to me, because they're either going to step up or step out, right? And we're going to start talking, we're going to get their credit, and we're going to see even worth you, even having another kind of right, right, right? And a lot of those lead, yeah, they're, they're still working on their credit. They're not buying a house

Patti Ketcham  35:37  
anytime, right, right, right, right. So I just, I try, when I teach, the one thing I try to encourage people do is follow their gut instinct and be who you be. Yeah, you know, if something doesn't feel right, it's not right, and it's not and always tell people if it's not right, now she's only go psychology major. Well, I guess that did kick

Tracy Hayes  35:59  
something for that. It did kick it a little. That is, that is, that is so true, you know, I think personal I mean, to me, personal development gives you that strength to see that Yeah, yeah, you're reading and listening to somebody, they're going to tell you, you know, yeah, that feeling that you're having is real, oh, yeah, you know. And you need to go and follow it, yeah, or, you know, or, or turn another

Speaker 2  36:22  
direction, right. Want to have, yeah, right, yeah.

Tracy Hayes  36:25  
What is your favorite class

Patti Ketcham  36:27  
teach? Oh my gosh, it's the one I'm teaching, whatever day it is. But honestly and truly, I love to teach finance, because it's a seven hour course, and GRI and people just want to slit their wrist, and so, you know, it's like, oh, it's finance, and it was one of the first classes I got approved to teach. And I was very methodical about it. I looked and saw how many people instructed it for Florida realtors. Realized they were only men, which makes a difference, and I was only person in North Florida. So that that's it, because I know finance. I know mortgage finance. So I was the de underwriter. I mean, I got this right, and so I thought, I can make this fun. So I do an interpretive scarf dance when I teach my finance class on the differences between FHA VA and conventional, and they can't unsee it. So they always do really good on the exam. So I love to teach finance, because it ends up being a cool class, which most of them dread, the NAR class. That's my favorite. It's one I'm teaching here at nefar today and tomorrow is the senior real estate specialist, SREs. I love that class.

Tracy Hayes  37:37  
What you obviously are in your your call, your groove,

Patti Ketcham  37:42  
oh my gosh, I'm so lucky. Yes,

Tracy Hayes  37:44  
if you had to like choose, I mean, and do you even like list homes anymore? Your team just takes care. You're

Patti Ketcham  37:50  
just out. I mean, no, I've got a listing now that we have multiple offers on and during break I'm texting, yeah, yeah, not as much because I it's not because I think I'm all that, and then some it's when I am teaching. I truly am off the grid. Usually I'm useless until lunch and at night, right? And so. So what I started doing a number of years ago is I always partner with somebody in the office, and it was different people. It was whoever was the best match for the buyer or seller. So I've been doing that for quite a while, but, and I still tend to do that, because as sure as I get a listing or get a buyer, it's going to happen while I'm teaching a class. So I've learned to always, I always

Tracy Hayes  38:32  
partner. So you're in the you're in the classroom, you're in your in your world. What do you what is it that that just really inspires you? Obviously, you're you're doing, you're teaching the same classes a lot, over and over again. You're traveling over from Tallahassee, spending a night in a hotel tonight, or a guest that someone's, you know, that takes a lot of time, but what when you get up in the morning? What's motivating you? What do you

Patti Ketcham  38:53  
what's it's interesting, because I still really like people, takes a lot of energy. Oh, it does. It does. And I'm telling you, during this pandemic, when we start doing this zoom that is 100 times harder than doing it in person, because it is all on you. Oh, god, that was tough. But I really like my husband still. I mean, I really do and so, but I love teaching. And I tell him, I said, I live in such a weird place, because from the time I start teaching until five o'clock, it's like, This is fabulous, and then at 515 I want to be home, so it's that you got to trade

Tracy Hayes  39:30  
off. I always remember a story because we I know we're running on time when we I was doing the instructors course over in Orlando, when I first got, first met you, and I tell the story to all the most, a lot of realtors I meet, because there's a Ryan sir Hayes story with

Patti Ketcham  39:47  
his book that he has, by the way, I ordered that yesterday because I listened to your podcast. Did you last night?

Tracy Hayes  39:56  
I'll send you the other copy. Okay, thank you. Which ones you ordered very first. Selling like, I'll send you big money. Energy, okay, good. But the one where you tell where your your mom and she and your dad had passed, and she's receiving the cards from the realtor in the neighborhood.

Patti Ketcham  40:12  
Carol Lam, yep, the whole, that's the

Tracy Hayes  40:16  
whole story that you know. She knows you and your husband are in the industry. This is what you do, and what she wanted to hire that other real estate.

Patti Ketcham  40:24  
And it's, it's such a powerful story, because it's every bit of it's completely true, right? And my mother is a retired college professor. This is not a dumb woman, right? And they were living in the first house they'd ever only house they ever hung they built it until I was four or five years old, and so she was in her 90s, it's time to sell. I was over there one day. Keep in mind, I'm the oldest child, so I'm in charge, because if you're the oldest, you're the first miracle, and you're the best everybody else are spares. So I'm in charge. And Mama says to me, when the time comes, I know who you need to call to sell the house, and I've never been in a bad accident. I've never had a near death experience, but I came pretty close that day because I could feel my spirit leave the room and float up there and watch and go, All right, do I nip this in the bud and straighten her out? Or do I go for the story? Well, I go for the story every time. And so I go, Oh, mama, who should I call? Thinking it's going to kick in here in a minute to help you sell this house. Now keep in mind, this is the neighborhood I grew up in. I list properties in this neighborhood. Okay, so mama goes, I don't know her name, which is an important part of the story, but go look at daddy's desk is and I and it's two huge stacks of and it was the service you paid for that said, here's the sales in your neighborhood. Mama kept everyone for years, years, yeah. And she said, I don't know who that is, but that lady really knows Waverly Hills. And she goes, Don't. Go put those back. And I said,

Tracy Hayes  41:56  
Yes, ma'am, not just keep one that has her phone number on. Keep all hundreds.

Patti Ketcham  42:00  
Go put those back. And I said, Yes, ma'am, I will not mind it, because I'm a good girl, and I couldn't wait to get in the car call my husband. Oh my gosh, you wouldn't believe what Mama said. Now keep in mind, my husband's real estate appraiser. I just want to point that out. She's known him since he was 14, but and I didn't tell my brother or sister, just clay and I knew this. And here's what I want people to understand, I was the president of the board that year. She had been to my installation. This woman lives seven minutes away from me. She was very involved in my life, and so at Thanksgiving, she brought it up again in front of my brother and sister, and my sister, who's the middle child, so they're screwed from the beginning, so they can say anything they want. She goes, Sue. And John, I've already talked to Patty, but there's some laid out in our name. The cards are in Daddy's desk. That's who you need to call. My sister goes, Mama, would you start smoking crap? And my mother, who wears pearls and is very genteel, goes, Why? Susan Carla, which means you're in trouble if you're from the south. Susan, yeah.

Tracy Hayes  43:02  
Uses that. Tracy Allen, oh yeah,

Patti Ketcham  43:07  
no, coming back from my mom, you just take your beating. Susan Carla, why would you ever say that? Sue goes, Mom, what does Patty do? And I'll never forget there was this huge pause. And Mama goes, Oh yeah, I guess y'all will be all right. Susan, says we got this, but I wanted to tell this, and it's every just every bit of it's true, but there's so many lessons there, because that's going to happen to every realtor. There's going to be somebody that you love and that loves you, and they're not going to ask you to list their house, because they didn't think of you. You're not top of mind Exactly. My mother, I was on the checking account. I mean, for heaven's sakes, so she came to my installation, so she knows what I do for living, but for some reason, shouldn't think of that. And so I tell people, I said, it's gonna happen to you. You have to step over. Yeah, you're just gonna have to step over it, because you're gonna have and it's done, have a reflection on their love or their respect, but there's something else that's gonna fall in your lap that you didn't deserve, so you gotta take them both.

Tracy Hayes  44:11  
I The story, and I haven't read the book, but the story about the guy who sold like 13,000 cars in like 10 years, and the thing that he did is, every month he sent a card to every one of his customers. And I guess someone told me they actually read the story. He actually had 10 people handwriting thank you card. Wow. Or actually what they were is just, Hey, I like you. I like every month they got a card from the guy. How could you forget his name? You know, I'm saying Right, right? They did not leave a gap, yeah. It really is a story to, you know, your friends and family will forget what you Oh, you're still there, yeah, still do that, right? You know, and you and you, you're embarrassed because they went with someone else. So it's because they forgot what you do, yeah, you know, share with them. And it could be just, you know, sending your business cards. Hey, if you have any friends or family, remember to let them know, right? Right, when really, you're telling them right, you're just right, you're looking for the other

Patti Ketcham  45:03  
person. So, but no matter what we do, it's going to happen. Yeah, so don't personalize it. It's not about you, you know, it's not about you. So you just, and I try to tell the baby realtors that the new ones this is gonna happen to it's gonna really hurt your feelings. It's gonna rip your heart out. Oh my gosh, I said, step over Yep, you have to step over it, because there's a good one coming. You didn't earn

Tracy Hayes  45:26  
I always, I played off for a long time, really, you know, because obviously I'm alone, you know, you get their credit. And so if you see some other things the real estate agent doesn't necessarily see. So I can understand some really close family members, you know, because they, you know, obviously I go home and talk to my wife. I am guilty. I taught me my wife. We share stories, you know, this, that. And the other thing is, you know, we grew up, we met at work, we talked, yeah, yeah. But what I found is, you know, through my networks, through my Citadel Alumni Club, reaching out, letting people know they would rather work with you than another person. You just got to remind them

Speaker 2  46:02  
what you Right, right, right, right. So my

Tracy Hayes  46:06  
big question here at the end is where we're at on time here, but, and hopefully you don't violate any Sunshine laws at the commission. You've been doing this a while. I mean, I assume anyone would consider you an expert. I'm sure you mentioned doing a deposition and court cases they brought you in, what are some things that are done differently, that if you were Governor DeSantis, right, had the power to actually change something in our world of real estate? What would that be? What do we think could be done better?

Patti Ketcham  46:35  
Okay, and I'm going to take this and go in a little bit different direction. Okay, all right, let's talk about Florida realtors, because we do have the power to change our industry. There's over 200,000 of us, so if we raise the bar and govern ourselves, it will take care of this industry. So I've been very fortunate. Of course, the pandemic kind of threw everything off, but led a pag, it's professional advisory group, and Florida Realtors on professionalism. And, I mean, we had the best of the best, and they're just, how do we make this better? How do we make this better? And we came up with some awesome, I mean, concrete ideas on how to make it better. Because I think when you try to do it legislatively, that can be very frustrating, but if we do it within our own Tracy professional organization, and if you see something say something which is hard, we don't like to turn each other in right code of ethics, and one of the things we are that we're hopefully will continue the Florida rules will continue to work on is Doing, yet again, another certification, or something like that, where you have to have, you can not have had action taken on you for a code of ethics violations. You have to be a member of a committee, you know, you have to have certain education levels. So it's a, almost a professional certification or degree, because I think, I think of the realtors that are out there trying to find a home, and they don't know nothing from nothing. And so if you could go, you know, what's important to me is to be in a really professional, ethical business. Which ones are those? Who can I call? Right? And if there's here, here they are, you know, and you earn it, and you have to keep earning it. It's not just the stamp of approval and it goes

Tracy Hayes  48:22  
away. The one thing you know, because I look at your with your 40 classes, you teach GRI and all these different acronyms that are all in there,

Patti Ketcham  48:30  
and which none of them are on my business card, by the way, right?

Tracy Hayes  48:34  
That's exactly what you see. Yeah, you're filling up your card with trivial information, yeah, and you don't get paid any differently. No, that you're doing this really for your own right.

Patti Ketcham  48:46  
And I always say, Nir, one day is gonna make me stop saying this, but so far, they haven't. But even when I'm teaching their courses, I go, guys, I'm telling you, this is not this. The best you're going to get out of there is the knowledge and education that's going to help your buyers and sellers. The letters behind your name, they don't, they they don't, they don't. I mean, my business card don't

Tracy Hayes  49:06  
have any, but you're it's not that's turned down the education because the education hopefully will make you a better, more respected influence, right, or make you more money. Right? You're going to get paid the same as the person who doesn't have them, but you're doing that because you want again, the longevity, right? Education, your curve, you're more you're more high. People are hopefully speak highly of you, right? Because you have this knowledge and you share it and influence right other people, yeah,

Patti Ketcham  49:34  
and so many times, because I'm a student as much as I'm an instructor, and so many times I've sat in a class and had the aha moments from like, dang, that's a good idea. And what I found people that are really good, never mind sharing their ideas. I

Tracy Hayes  49:47  
was just thinking about what we just you said a minute ago, having that go to person, because there's there's there's groups, those professional organizations. You in small business in the local towns, or where, if you want to start a business. Us, they come on in and you can tell them what you want to do, and they, you know, poke holes in it, or whatever they're going to do. You're, you're kind of suggesting something similar to that. Is that kind of a realtor coming in say, Hey, I'm new. This is what I want, you know, to kind of give them some guidance and some some resources well.

Patti Ketcham  50:17  
And I think you, the more you're around your peers, you realize who the go, who is someone that's trustworthy and who's somebody that shares your saying, understands you, yeah, and I can't tell you how many people have called me that are going to start their own brokerage firm and go, How do I do this? And I tell them. And in my firm, one of my things is, when you join, I expect you to get your broker's license. Because always tell them, I want you here because you want to be here, not because you have to be here, right? And one of the and I said in class today, I said, y'all, if you're working for somebody, and they're discouraging you from taking education classes, and they're discouraging you from being at your local board, and they're discouraging you from getting your broker's license, you're scared, right? I said, there's your time.

Tracy Hayes  51:03  
All right, I'm gonna wrap this. I call these my two minute warning questions. Okay, I love it. Referee football. You listen to my court I did so I took out the Jaguar question because I figured that wasn't relevant to you,

Patti Ketcham  51:14  
right? It is not. Is

Tracy Hayes  51:16  
it more important who you know or what you know?

Patti Ketcham  51:18  
Who you know gets you to the dance, what you know keeps you

Tracy Hayes  51:22  
there. I like that. I like that answer. That's a solid answer, right there. What are you doing when you're not teaching and selling real estate, family like, 15 minutes of the day?

Patti Ketcham  51:31  
Honestly, truly, it's if I'm in town, I'm at my office. I really am. We are blessed to have grown children that have reproduced and have children. So love, love, love my family. And as I said, I still really like that 14 year old boy I met,

Tracy Hayes  51:49  
right, right? And, you know, to kind of go off that question because of your time in the financial benefits of being a successful real estate agent. Now those grandkids, you can do whatever you want. You're not, I assume you've put money away and haven't squandered it, you know? Oh no, I squandered. Well, we all squandered. Yeah, it's given you a you and your whole your family this, if you want to call financial security

Patti Ketcham  52:18  
that we've had some tough times. I mean, we all Yeah, we all Yeah. And I've always said, once you've been poor, it don't scare you anymore, right? There's, there is a power of struggling. Where you go. I can do four, I've done four,

Tracy Hayes  52:32  
but you've been through enough cycles too, right? You save your, oh yeah. Save your acorns for right, the rough days, right? Yeah, right, yeah. And

Patti Ketcham  52:40  
I was listening to one of your other podcasts, and they were talking about how proud they are to see their agents go buy a new car. And I'm like, No,

Tracy Hayes  52:52  
we're buying a new car because we had a really good year this year. What's on your travel bucket

Patti Ketcham  52:57  
list? Alaska, we made reservations last week. Oh, wow, we hadn't even told our kids. Super

Tracy Hayes  53:03  
my parents are going, actually, next August. They're gonna go on a cruise. Also Alaska, but that's certainly an area. We certainly want to go out west. Yeah, I haven't spent enough time out west. I'm a workaholic, and I'm now. I'm like, you know, honey, we've done really well. We need to actually take a vacation. Yeah. So we are actually, we're actually going on a cruise. I've mentioned on the show. We're going down. I can't, because I can't wait November 20, whole week of Thanksgiving, not worrying about cooking turkeys good for you. We're going down to Bonaire. We're gonna go scuba diving. My son's getting certified last weekend, so we go down there and carousel, which I didn't realize there's ABC islands, Aruba, Bonaire and carousel. They're all sister. Oh my gosh, they are. Yeah, Bonaire and carousel. And then back up to their things. Eight day cruise. You only have three days that you're actually at something. We're doing a lot of cruising with no

Patti Ketcham  53:53  
good that's awesome. Just really Yeah, and it's so true. It's it. It forces you to unplug. I'll tell you one of the best trips we ever took, and we did this last February. Is we went and did this is so unlike us. We did four days of snowmobiling on the Continental Divide in Jackson Hole, 10,000 feet on a snowmobile, and it was four days, and you spent the night in lodges. I've never sang so many hymns in my life. I was terrified.

Tracy Hayes  54:24  
I'm going to, if you don't, please share that whoever. Oh, absolutely, because my kids have never seen snow, and we're trying to figure that out. And that sounds like a blast.

Patti Ketcham  54:37  
We were not as prepared as we should have been, but we returned alive. But yes, I'd be glad to, because it was, I mean, I kept telling clay, What's plan B? There is no plan B. We just have to survive

Tracy Hayes  54:51  
literally being out in the middle of

Patti Ketcham  54:53  
nowhere, and we were

Speaker 2  54:54  
in a wide out. Yeah, you can't. It was Friday, so quiet you can hear the snow on the ground.

Patti Ketcham  54:59  
I. We saw the helicopter come down. The only way you got off is that they took you in the helicopter because you busted your head, right? Yeah, you

Tracy Hayes  55:07  
got to the other end. Wow, yeah. You got to send me the details. That sounds so amazing, but patty is someone listening to show I know you got you got your Facebook site, which we put in the show notes as well. What's generally just the best way for someone to reach out to you? And I know that you don't. You probably don't want someone to be blowing

Patti Ketcham  55:26  
up your phone. No, I don't mind, you know. Okay, yeah. And I always, in every class I teach, I write my name, text, I mean, my phone number and the email, and I say, like everybody else, emails not working anymore, because it's too much, you know? So if you really need me, yep, reach out to me. Now cut me some slack. You know, to get back to you, and you and I, my memory is very short, so reach out five or six times. You had to do it. So 850-545-5314, and I'll do it again.

Tracy Hayes  55:58  
850-545-5314, we'll put that in the show notes, and also your Facebook page they want to message it Sure, or just just follow you in general. Patty, it's an honor to have you great show. And again, yeah, we could sit here for three hours. I could, probably could do three or four episodes and actually just cut them off and just because we go on and tell a lot of stories, yeah, so forth, so but I really

Patti Ketcham  56:21  
appreciate it. Thank you so much for thinking of me. I really do this has been an honor. Super

Podcast Intro  56:31  
this may be it for today's episode of Real Estate excellence, but we both know your pursuit of excellence doesn't stop here, to connect with the best of the best and really take your skills to the next level. Join our community by visiting Tracy Hayes podcast.com where you'll meet more like minded individuals looking to expand their inner circle and their personal experience that's available at Tracy Hayes podcast.com

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