Brian Lunsford: Successful Serial Entrepreneur

this guest, I think, has taken a quiet second seat to his wonderful wife. He's a very successful entrepreneur, and I look forward to him telling his story. He owns three companies locally, and I'm sure he is on the board of his wife's company as well. You can see him running the streets of Ponte, vedra and Nakata before sunrise at least several days a week, right? Did you do it seven days a week? Close, close. He sits field side at the Jags game. His birthday was last week. He is a collaborator. His employees always have a good attitude, and I think they look forward to working for him. Let's welcome the owner of lunsfro, Home Inspections, kingfish pest control, Joy lights and him and his wife with the jack's real producers magazine. Brian Lunsford to the show. Do I Venmo you now? Or that

Brian Lunsford  1:56  
opening? Thank you. Appreciate it.

Tracy Hayes  1:58  
I am glad to got you on. I'm trying to, we had you scheduled, and I can't remember, was the Jags are still playing, but something had came up, and you had to leave town or something there, and it was just too much logistics going on. But just to kind of start off the show, you guys came down from Atlanta, but you guys have come pretty big. Jags fans, obviously, and financially, obviously, involved with them through advertising and so forth, with everything as well. I mean, what's, what is just the passion for sport, or what's your draw?

Brian Lunsford  2:25  
Yeah, well, we'll take a step back. The invite. You were kind enough to have me on that I couldn't make last year. The Jags, as much as I love this show, the Jags did invite Kristen and me to fly on the team plane. So, oh yeah, it was tough to say no to that. We got to go to New York right before Christmas and watch them beat the Jets. That's awesome.

Tracy Hayes  2:41  
That's what I remember. Because I remember seeing on the on the social media. I knew there was something going on there with going out of town for the game, but that's, that's right. So what was it, just occasionally they have, is that something that comes up every way game, or just occasionally when they have room, or something, no, not for

Brian Lunsford  2:57  
our level, not every game, but we'll take it. We can't, yeah. I mean to answer your question too, to go back just a little bit on the Jaguars and moving from Atlanta. So we, I moved here. We moved here. We're going on our seventh year, which is crazy, but does not feel like we've been here that long. I still feel like we're kind of the new people in the neighborhood, and right? It's certainly not the case. But yeah, I've always loved sports. I love the intersection of business and sports, and so I've always loved the NFL. And the opportunity came about. I'm kind of a risk taker, and you know, the pest control company kingfish is growing and doing well, but it's still certainly for the level we came in at, probably too small to be an NFL partner,

Tracy Hayes  3:32  
right, with an official right? And you're not national either, right, right?

Brian Lunsford  3:36  
We're not national. We're just local here for now, in Northeast Florida. So I just took it as a branding opportunity to get a small business out there and just give it a shot and see what happens. And again, it intersects my passion, my love, which is sports, and I like politics and business as well, but I do love sports and I love that intersection, and that's what it's

Tracy Hayes  3:54  
able to do. So now, how long, how many years now you've been involved with this will be Season Three coming up. Okay, yeah. Are you seeing that branding? Is it? Are you, you know, no one really has a way to test it, I guess, yeah. I mean, unless you, you know, I guess nationally, you can tell some way, but locally, seeing some of that name recognition, yeah.

Brian Lunsford  4:11  
So, I mean, the question that I knew I would get before I even partner is, what's the ROI, right? And, and I knew this before I even signed, is that it's going to be hard to track. It's one of those things where it's a branding build. It's kind of like a big radio campaign or something like that. You're just building, you're building the brand, and if the growth is matching some of that, then then you're doing well. And the way I look at it too, is I'm having fun with it. So at the end of the day, in 10 years, if I look back and say, financially, that was, that was a loss, I still had fun along the way and where I'm at at this stage of life that experiences and having fun and making sure our team members are enjoying what they're doing. To me, that's critical. So I'm fine with it, no, but I feel good about it so far. No, that's, I

Tracy Hayes  4:52  
mean, that's, that's really a great attitude to have, because I, you know, before we dig into my normal shows, since we're on the subject, I mean, obviously we get approached all.

Brian Lunsford  5:00  
The time. You know, whether it's a little ball team here, needs a donation or whatever, and you really can't expect any return on investment. I mean, I mean, it's really charity at that level. Yeah, if people on the ball team get to know you, and you do get one phone call and you break even, or maybe, you know, make something out of that for that one service, great, but you have to have that. You have to do it from because you enjoy it. Yeah, here's what has done for me, like, specifically the Jaguars connection. I'm in rooms now with people I would never have been in. Yes, it's elevated our leaders on our teams. It's elevated me as a CEO and owner. It's put me in positions to make deals that I would never would have been able to do. It's helped me learn, pick up, mentors, and again, just the connections that I've made, if nothing else, when it's all said and done, I had fun, and the connections that I've made have been, well, I mean, if you really think about it, there's some people who spend a lot of money for these masterminds to go and be in the room with some of these people that you're talking about. Yeah, they're paying that direct just to check, just to be there you're involved in, obviously, being able to brand the company the same time. Love it, Brian, as I normally get started, tell us a little about, you know, growing up, and then, you know, where'd you go to college? And I, you know, obviously, I know you guys, actually, I do know where you went to University of Georgia, up in that area. But tell us about growing up and kind of when you were going to school, what were some of your aspirations, if I'm not mistaken, you were a poly, same side major, correct, yeah, correct, yeah. I'm all over the map. You know what? Again, this, this is just probably my personality. But to answer your question, I grew up outside of Atlanta, a little east of Atlanta, a town called Conyers, which I had no idea that would turn into, like the Hollywood of the South. Conyers, Covington, Metro Atlanta is like right booming right now for Netflix shows and Hollywood and stuff like that. And to answer your question as well, just dig a little deeper. I wanted to be like a movie director at first, like that was honestly something that I had passion to do. And so I would gather up all the neighborhood friends and my siblings and cousins, and we'd constantly film movies where they're filming movies right now, not knowing that decades later, it would, it would actually be a spot where they would film real movies. From there, I kind of got into video and sports and doing things like that. And also, I became a sports producer at the fox affiliate in Atlanta. So I was doing that while going to Georgia already had the media was in a top 10 market, so I didn't really need the communications degree or the journalism degree. So I asked, you know, people at the fox affiliate asked people at the University of Georgia, what would you recommend? They said, What else do you like? I said, I like politics, poli sci major. So that's, that's kind of how that happened. And it was, it was an incredible run in college. Had a lot of fun. And then, you know, as time went on, the business world started kind of calling my name. I was doing the TV thing, kind of, you know, I was in my late teens, early 20s, and I saw a lot of burnout in the newsroom, 11 o'clock at night. Yeah, people are kind of over it at that point. So we, I mean, so are you actually in the newsroom, or one of those reporters out in the field, they're kind of working? Yeah. So I was in the newsroom. I was in the studio. Is in the producer. I'm the guy talking in the anchor's ears. Okay, Chipper Jones had a three run homer while we were on the air. I was like, it's now seven to three instead of right, as far as before that. So I loved it. It was a blast. And the high stakes action that comes with with live TV, especially in a top 10 market when you have, you know, a big TV audience was just awesome. You had to make deadlines, and you got to meet all kinds of cool people and sports, athletes and stuff like that. So it was really cool. But toward the end there, I started to notice that, and this is before I, you know, had met Kristen and had a family and something like that, that 11 o'clock at night, people are divorced, they're not liking their life, and they're all good people, but it was, it just, it's a tough gig, like you're you're up late, your your vacations are different, your holidays are different. And so ultimately, resigned and moved to the Virgin Islands. Yeah, so did that. My brother and I lived down there, worked in a little diner. Had never both of us had graduated from Georgia. You're just like, okay, just go with the shirt on her back kind of thing. Pretty much got rid of the car, yeah, gave the gave the TV station, plenty of notice, resigned. Went down. There were having a blast doing that. But six months in, you know, I started to, I would see the New York skyline on TV, you know, I started kind of getting the itch. I was like, All right, now the itch to get into, either back into television or get the business world started to come. So that's kind of where, where it went from there, all right. So you go back to Atlanta after your little correct, Hayes correct, go back to Atlanta. My dad had a small pest control company, okay, you know, he didn't have a website. This is oh five, 2005 didn't have a website or anything like that. My brother and I saw some opportunity there. There was really just, you know, a couple of employees. So we came in and just did the basic stuff you would do. You add a website, bring customer care in, just some of the common sense fundamentals. And we did that. And then all of a sudden it started to get traction, grew that, and ultimately sold that. And because he was just really just, you know, you know, small town had enough business for, you know, to make a moderate income for himself, and didn't envision where you and your brother, kind of had a greater vision of what was going Correct, correct. He was content while we weren't. And we came in and we found a way to grow it. And like I said, we grew it, sold it, determine x. And around that same time, Kristen and.

Brian Lunsford  10:00  
My family, our two kids, we moved down here. The kids were really young. They had not started kindergarten yet, so we were like, if we're gonna kind of make that transition now to be a perfect time. And it didn't really matter where we were. Kristen was a stay at home mom working on her doctorate, right, and behind a computer every day. And so I always wanted to live palm trees, golf courses, ocean things like that, right? My dad, ultimately was down here as well in Neptune Beach, and still is. So just, there was just a lot of indication indicators to do that. And Christina was born here. She's a, she's one of the rare natives, so, right? It made sense she got to come home. And it's just been, it's been wonderful ever since.

Tracy Hayes  10:35  
So a lot of this is just been your, your passion, and it sounds like even so far, and I think this story is going to continue, of almost what is the phrase, it's you're not just lucky, but being prepared when luck meets preparedness, or something like that, or some phrase, yeah, there and you've prepared yourself. Or, you know, the fact that you and your brother, and I think a lot of people, the young people out there, and I include even myself, not that I'm young, but, you know, I saw things, but didn't know actually, how to put the rubber to the you know, I'm definitely a visionary and doing the things, but how to put the rubber to the road? And sometimes, I mean, we were talking pre show about, you know, the YouTubers and stuff like that, some people see what they're doing now, and they'll realize they've been doing this now, five, 610, years and and they're constantly learning, constantly trying to get better, make a better video, do this. And now, of course, they're making money and gobs up. But some people don't even get out of the Get out of the gate, so to speak, where you could have told Dad, dad, I'm not really interested in pest control. I'm just gonna go get a you know job with whatever. Go back to the TV studio. Yeah, more

Brian Lunsford  11:45  
is lost in indecision than wrong decision. I mean, that's kind of how I look at it, like take a chance. Don't just sit on your hands, do something. And that's kind of what we did there with him, and then with our dad approaching him and buying him out. And then in 2020 after we sold the company, the year before, my brother and I parted ways, and he did. He's doing his thing in Georgia still, and I'm doing my thing down here in Florida, amicable. And that's when I brought Kristen into the into the business world. And I've just been having fun ever since, all right,

Tracy Hayes  12:09  
so you sell the you sell the company. You come here because you want, because you wanted to be with the palm trees and golf courses and so forth. So you put yourself into that position because was King, if I looked on your on the LinkedIn, was king, was king fish first before the home inspections.

Brian Lunsford  12:26  
So this is where it gets confusing, because back in Atlanta, they were all under the same umbrella. Okay, so, and also, I didn't wait on an exit with one of my companies to make the move to Florida either, like we actually moved before we sold. So we moved in 2016 and we sold in 2019 because I look at it, I look at it like I want a big life. You know, I want to do bigger things. There's, there's other things I want to do. And to me, the energy that Florida brings, and just for me personally, living down here in the sunshine and the activity and active lifestyle and everything just fit everything that Kristin and me were looking to do, man, that, and that's, that was one of the big reasons.

Tracy Hayes  13:00  
So, all right, so I think here's, here's one of the, like, the business questions. Because, you know, I think that's one of the, one of the, especially, you know, we know a lot of our real estate agent partners that are out there and so forth, one of their biggest steps is even just hiring the first assistant, right? So they can continue to grow the, you know, prospect and actually bring the business in and let somebody on the back end here, you literally move out of state, you know, five hours away. You know, you know, if you flew on a plane and still take you five hours by the time you went to the airports, if you had to rush back for something and literally have to be there physically, what did you was that easy for you, or the mindset of actually saying, Hey, I'm not gonna actually be down the street from the office anymore.

Brian Lunsford  13:45  
No, it didn't. It was one of those things where we knew it was something we were passionate about and wanted to do. So the decision to move was not hard at all. It was a matter of getting all the ducks in a row and then making the move as far as to your to your point earlier about hiring, making that first hire is tough. Yeah, you got to figure it out. Like we didn't know what we were doing back then. We made terrible decisions. We actually I learned now every day from stuff that we did back then, that I did back then, that now I try to improve on. So the thing is, you just have to take the step. There's never going to be the right time in business. I mean, that's what I've learned. Business is life. Life is business. There's never the right time. You just got to make a move. You can if you're just staying, if you're just being static and not being dynamic, then nothing's going to happen.

Tracy Hayes  14:29  
You know, well, that, you know, obviously you guys created the right people there. Well, your brother, I guess, was still there. So, you know, you still had that ability. But the business sounds like it was. You had it more or less running on its own, that you and you were out of the production side. You weren't doing the physical things. You were what you were handling, but you slowly brought in people that you trusted to and handle the business and literally go hands off. Yeah. I mean, I've

Brian Lunsford  14:55  
never even done a home inspection. I own a home inspection company, right? You know, people corner me and say, well.

Brian Lunsford  15:00  
You must know about termites, and I can talk about in an elevator. But add people that are very I've been to a couple conventions. I have people that are very smart, very passionate about termites, about home inspections, about lighting, whatever it is like we hire those people to do those things. And I love the business side. I love the culture side. It doesn't mean I like spreadsheets and all that. Those are fine. That's part of it, right? What I mean is, is the energy that business can bring to life. Life can bring, can bring to business, how we can be a platform for other people to do big things. They can live big lives, just bringing that, that joy to them. That is where I'm at now in my career, like that is what I want to do. And joy can be looked at multiple ways. And that's actually, you know, one of the things we talk about every day, bringing the joy. It's not just a motto. It's not just something we say, right? We do say it, but it's something we live by, that, you know, and the micro sets are very practically wise, yeah, if you're in line at Publix, bring joy to somebody behind you, or your team member, you know, bring joy to them. Customers, obviously, clients, realtor, partners. That's all obvious stuff that you need to be doing, at least in our culture. But the way I'm positioned now, where, where, you know, my biggest drive right now is bringing joy, long term, to our teams, so the people within our team. So if there's someone that's that's ready, and there are, and there's multiple that that every single day, are out there working as hard as they can to, you know, bring joy to others and grow these companies, then I want to help them meet their goals, whatever that is. That might mean bringing a foundation. That might mean financially, whatever it is, but I want to be that vehicle for them. Have you always had, you know, Kristen said the phrase, you know that you've mentioned, basically, you're willing to take chances on certain things. That's logical, that could work. And I can imagine Joy lights is one of those most recent ones, right? You know, there is a demand for people to hang up Christmas lights. We're in an area where people make a reasonable wage and people shouldn't be climbing ladders that aren't experienced in climbing ladders and climbing out on a roof. So it makes total, total sense, and we've been using a service for years ourselves, and you just, you know, obviously you had the financial ways to just, you know, to go and say, Yeah, let's roll with it. Now, what are we gonna do in the off season? Well, now we can do, you know, like, but that attitude of of that entrepreneurial attitude of, you know, willing to step out there and willing to fail. And it was very interesting this morning, I was kind of just flipping through Instagram, and there was a reel in there. You know, everyone talks about, oh, Trump had 50 bankruptcies. Well, Walt, Disney bankrupt themselves seven times in a much slower time, and it's because those guys went out and took chances. Where did that come along? Where did you Is that something you just intrinsically always had, or was the confidence working with dad, and what you guys did there give you that confidence to take another step. I think it's also curiosity. You know, going back to Joy lights, how that was kind of born, there's multiple layers to why Joy lights started, and we started it last fall. Number one, is it our vision, our mission, our culture, and this is, this is all explained. So we paid someone else as well for the first time the year before, the Christmas before. And I remember driving in with the kids and Kristen, and we were coming in for the he had, they had just put them up that afternoon. And we came home, it was already dark, and the joy it brought to our faces, like the kids, like every all of our faces were lit up with Right, right. And so it fit that immediately that was number one. Number two is, is that we have, you know, with these service companies, pest control and home inspections, they go seasonally. In a sense, no matter how you slice it, when the colder months come, everything slows down. A little bit depends on to the degree, but it does slow down depending on the year as well. And so what immediately we thought was this would give, first of all, home inspectors, they carry ladders. Pest Control guys, they carry ladders. They're familiar. They're all familiar with homes. This would then give them an opportunity in the slower months to pick up more income, if they would like, by crossing over to this other company. So it fit the culture, it fit all of that. And then it also was able to do that for these other team members. And then from there, it's like, hey, we have passionate leaders. I mean, I mentioned earlier some of the people that are just every day out there, I can name there's a whole list of them. But the two VPS, Brian Westcott, kingfish VP and Michelle foster Lunds pro VP, they are. They're like no other. I mean, they are. They're fantastic at what they do, but they do it with passion. They do it with joy, and they align perfectly with with Kristen and me. So they took it from there. I mean, they took it so, yes, while at first it was a seasonal idea, it's a permanent and seasonal lighting company now. So we do stuff all year round, and they took it and they ran with it. And that's, again, that's where it comes. That's like my days now, as I as I look forward, is, how can I encourage them? How can I support them? But then also, long term, how can I bring them joy to their lives? I want them to live the biggest life they want. And if these companies are a vehicle, then then Perfect. All right? Now we like to think everything's all sunshine and roses, as Rocky says, right? But life's not sunshine and roses, it's.

Tracy Hayes  20:00  
There has to been, there must have been some, some mistakes, some setbacks, tons during, Tell us. Tell us about, you know, a couple things that obviously, you know, we just mentioned, you know, hiring, you know. And obviously, that's an always, a learning process. You never know. As some people say, you could throw a pile of resumes up in the air and, you know, take the one on the top and, and, you know, you just don't know, yeah, you know, there's, but there is a little more science, science to it, if you've made some mistakes, to be able to understand what the good traits are, right? I mean, instead of give us, give us some setbacks that you've had, and what'd you do to overcome?

Brian Lunsford  20:33  
Yeah, we have a ton. I mean, I can go on, this could be the longest segment. And as when I said, I learned from these, these things. But, I mean, there were years where, you know, we were in growth mode. In Georgia, we didn't even care about the bottom line. So we were top line, revenue, profit, you know, was way down the list for us. And there were times even, you know, we ultimately ballooned to around 100 employees. There were times where we're looking at it, going, are we going to make payroll? I mean, there, there were some times during some of those years that, yes, the growth was there, and everything was awesome, but the bottom line wasn't great. And so that's number one for more than a decade now, I've focused on profit. And, you know, we don't run our companies with any debt or anything like that. It's, it's the bottom line is what we look at. Top line revenue is great, and it's a good vanity number, and it's fun to go after awards and stuff like that. There's nothing wrong with that, but at the end of the day, when the curtains pulled back, what do you have there? So that's what we're working really hard on. We're not where we want to be totally obviously, it's a it's a process we're always trying to build and get better on it. But the more profits you have, the more you can then share those with the people that are driving that company forward. And that's that's the ultimate goal.

Tracy Hayes  21:39  
Or, you know, jump out to a new idea, like joint lights, or something like correct to be able to go out there, but entrepreneurial ship, I think there's nothing in those businesses that sets like, you know, the interest rates rising and all you know, that's a little bit of slowing down. There's not enough inventory. So there's, there's sales are limited versus what it was two years ago. And you're constantly having to feel the heartbeat of that all the time, and if it slows down, what are you going to do? Are you going to cut and that? And I think a lot of people's vision is, I want to be big. I want to be big. But really, in reality is, yeah, what time do you want to go home? And are you going to be sweating it out when you see the payroll, you know, come across and like, ooh, that's coming out of the checking account, right? Do I need to move some money from this account, cover that and make that happen, right? And I mean sweating that out, that those are real things. Are real entrepreneurs and small business, and making those making those things happen. I think you've gestured to it several times already. Your people, you've talked about your two vice presidents. What are some of the things that that you've, you know, in the hiring process? You know, something you did early, which I imagine, was just hire somebody just, would actually fill out the application. We were begging people back then at the beginning, yeah, to to now where, like Billy Wagner's, I got his book over there on the shelf where he's, you know, he has a pipeline of people that he creates, although he has great retention, but he always has somebody there if he's going to expand or someone leaves, he immediately has someone who he's been trickling on or, you know, staying in touch with for a while was, is kind of one of the things to what are you guys doing? And of course, you're doing a little more labor intensive work than the insurance agency. What do you what? Where'd you start? And then, what are you guys doing now? And I know you're always tweaking it, yeah.

Brian Lunsford  23:29  
Well, we started on Craigslist back in Georgia so And to your point, earlier, we would take whatever we could get. They came in the door. We were basically not interviewing them. We were basically begging them to come work for us at the very beginning. These are pest control technicians. Early, early on, we first were getting started because my brother and I knew that we needed to get behind the computer. And ultimately that's, you know, that's where we were. But yeah, it's normal things like indeed, and other places like that. But when I have found that the sign of a healthy culture starts, what you start to notice is that people are coming to you. So yes, we'll do the traditional things to get the, you know, awareness out there. But we're finding that it's connections that, Hey, I heard you guys might have an opening, or, Hey, if you even if you don't have an opening, I see what you guys are doing there. We want to come join you guys. So nowadays, that's how it is back then, whatever you

Tracy Hayes  24:16  
could do, right? Yeah, what do you think? I mean, you know, in that level of job as the pest control person. They're they're taken care of, and there, there is a level that they need to get paid. Yeah, dealing with, you know, what is the right compensation? How many times? I mean, over the years, you know, between Atlanta and years here, now that you're constantly like tweaking and trying to find where that sweet spot is. Obviously, as anyone you want to pay someone what they're worth, but you don't, you know, overpay them either, because then there's that takes away from your profits, or things the company could do, because if you're paying someone more than any other pest control company is in the area. Yeah, but just constantly balancing that. What are some of the things that you guys do to kind of stay

Brian Lunsford  25:04  
on top? Number one is explain what you're trying to do to that potential hire. We lay it out at the very beginning, what we're trying to accomplish, what our goals are, what our profit, what our revenue, whatever the metrics are. We lay it out so they understand there's a framework we're working with here, as far as specifics, just to make sure we're in the ballpark. I mean, the cool thing about what we have going on here in Jacksonville is that we are friends with our competitors. I'll pick up the phone, or I'll text, and we'll ask, Hey, what are you paying this level of person? How's it going for you? And we'll get two or three different companies to kind of mastermind on it. And so we have that, that collaboration. I mean, again, when I look at the evolution, at least me personally, early on, and certainly this is more of a way back, even it goes even more, you know, decades into it, just in general, in America. But I think there was a, I have the idea I'm going to hide it. It was a, it was a, it was not very, it wasn't a very collaborative environment. And what I have evolved to, and certainly, I think even America, and I think as as we continue to move forward, it comes to is that, yes, competition matters, yes, it's fun. Yes, we can be competitive, but we can all still win as well. The fact is, is that we can be one of the bigger home inspection companies in Jacksonville, but the market share, if you look at the percentage, there's still a ton of pie out there. Even add the two or three top guys, there's still a ton of market share to be had out there. So why not collaborate? Pick up something from a competitor, they pick up something from something from you, and everybody can win by collaborating and masterminding and and also, also, what does that do that helps the customer, that helps the realtor partner, that makes the transaction go smoother? So it's just a different way to think. I think some industries are way ahead with this are way, way behind. Kind of tell there's just, it just spends on the industry. I can tell you, our businesses, that's what we're trying

Tracy Hayes  26:47  
to do. So is that, is that something, you know, you know, I know you and Austin and some of the others have gone together. Charles, yeah, was Kurt Stein in there.

Brian Lunsford  26:56  
He's not in that group. You're talking he better, but,

Tracy Hayes  27:00  
but the collaboration part of it. So that's an interesting thing, because I know I could tell you right now, in the mortgage world, no way they, they, you know, where the real estate agents, top real estate agents I talked to, they understand collaboration, because they are trying to, as Susan Hanson mentioned on the last show, the ultimate goal is to sell that person's house and and that person buy it, and you're you the four of you got to get together, two real estate agents, two customers, right, and make that transaction happen. So there has to be a collaboration, because you all have the same goal is, you know, transfer that home. But, I mean, is that something that you know, here locally, that you just got on the phone and started talking to some of these guys? That happened naturally? I mean, how did you actually get that going?

Brian Lunsford  27:42  
Well, pest control, aside, home inspection, specifically, since you mentioned it, there's a group, a large group, that we're all part of, and we kind of really became friends through that. It's like a national, kind of a national association exactly, then actually stands behind some of the stuff I was just talking about. It's, don't think conference is traditional conference. This is, this is your energy. This is getting ready to do big things. This is, this is nothing about a home inspection. We don't when we meet with someone, when we meet with the competitors you mentioned those, they're all great guys. We're not, we're not talking about anything, about an HVAC or anything like that. We're talking culture. We're talking numbers. We're talking big picture stuff. We're talking, how can we help our team get to where they want to go. It's none of this other stuff that, to be quite honest, some of us don't even really know about or care about it will be good on the end of it, because we hire great people to run that side of it right. But that's not our job. But you mentioned earlier too, like the collaboration and that culture. Well, that this is why Kristen is doing what she's doing and just killing it with Jacksonville, real producers. Her love language is helping others and encouraging others. And I could not, you know, when you think of someone to head up a company, there's not a better person on the planet. My opinion, a little biased, but they couldn't. They could run any real producer, you know, publication across the country, there's a lot of them. There's over 130 now, specifically, though, for this time at this at this place, then Chris, she is, she is a all the things I mentioned earlier as well, just positive, bringing the joy all of that. I mean, she has helped shape me. So we talk about my evolution. I attribute a lot of it to, obviously, books and things like that. But really, ultimately, it comes down to her influence her, not her telling me something, just kind of watching the way she operates, and it just rubs

Tracy Hayes  29:24  
off, right, right? I think the would you agree, a lot of people, though, have the disconnect of, you know, the literal giving in mistaking it and for lack of better words, but you still going to ask to get paid, you know, I'm saying there's that. There's that thing where people are, are they fear that part of like, Yo, I'd love to give you all my time, but eventually I do have to eat too, I say, and where there's that disconnect, and say, you know, she's going out there and obviously putting these people together, you know, in the Jax roll producers and and doing. A lot to help promote the agents and give them some recognition and so forth. In our space, lot of collateral benefits, obviously, for your other companies and so forth. So that's what I love. I love the whole I love the way you guys just have the whole circle there. I just That's brilliant, but the giving, but eventually it's also a business and there that separates a lot of people, because I think a lot of people have the attitude, Oh, I'd love to give. To give, but I don't have anything to give. And it's not necessarily dollars that you're giving them. You're creating opportunities, correct, you know? And that's what that's, I think there's, she does it very well. Well, the

Brian Lunsford  30:34  
fact is, is that she explains, and she's the first person to tell you, I'm not, she's not a salesperson, but she explains what we're doing honestly, and talks about the value it brings, because it does, and we're also not desperate. So we don't have to have that particular company to come in at real producers, if they fit the criteria fine, if they don't feel like they fit with us, that's okay too. That's just not the right fit, and we're not desperate. Well, there's other people knocking down the door that want to be in. So that's the big thing. Just showing she does a great job of walking the walk, and the conversations are kind of by the time she's talking to someone on the phone or on Zoom, that's almost the cherry on top. I mean, that's the very end, like she's already they. She has already shown the value in it by the events, by the other people around town talking about it. So by the time they're to that point with her, one on one, it's they're gonna join, right?

Tracy Hayes  31:27  
I wanted to step out. I wrote home inspection down here on a on a national level, in the lead background to the collaboration in that area, you haven't talked, I think it was talking to Kurt Stein, talking to Austin Gray, you're talking about, there's just a lot of home inspectors that are really just mom and pop shops. You know, they are just truly, you know, he is Inspector. Maybe they got someone answering the phone, which might be their wife, or maybe they do hire somebody, or virtually whatever, answering the phone. Is that true? That around the country, my perception is that most home inspection companies are basically, probably just a couple

Brian Lunsford  32:03  
100% and they're from what I've found learning more about that industry. They're all good guys, well intentioned. But the problem is, they look at the home inspection as the end all be, all when that's important, but it's not everything, and so they don't understand that your culture, your energy, what you're doing the night before determines what you're going to do the next day, keeping yourself physically reading up on the latest trends. Whatever it is, they're just not that mindset. They're in that old school. I'm going to get in the truck, I'm going to go do the technical service. I'm going to come home feed the family. There's nothing wrong with that. Some guys actually choose that that route, and that's totally fine, too. But the ones that are trying to grow, and they're trying to get two or three inspectors, and they run into these, these walls, a lot of times. What we're finding is, and just talking a lot of people around that industry, is that they won't show up when it's time. They won't show up for themselves. They also treat and this goes across all the industries, but what I don't ever negotiate with is family time over over work over family time. And not just Kristen, but our entire team. So if there's ever a situation, and there is all the time where team members need to go see something, or sidle a soccer game, whatever it is, this work will be here that at the end of the day, it's important, yes, and we're doing a fantastic job, but I need you to go be energized and inspired, and don't miss these, these fleeting moments with your family. And when they what we find is, for years doing this, they come back, they'll go to war for you. I mean, they want to be a part of something like that, where you encourage them to go, take time off, take vacations, come back, inspired

Tracy Hayes  33:36  
and ready to go. That's a very interesting point. And all this, all the everything we're talking about here, for someone's listening right now, this is small business. I mean larger the, you know, the Home Depots and so forth. They have this issue as well, but they have a little stricter guidelines. You can't go and see the CEO that isn't typically around, you know, unless you're in their Atlanta headquarters or something, right? But where you're where you're reachable, they know pretty much where you live and you're not that far away. Small business situation, but that that grew, that growth pushes that you go against, like someone might say, Well, hey, the realtor call. We got to get out there right away. Or do we, you know, I remember one thing there was, I was talking at Quicken Loans, was, you know, if the customer, you know, we're dialing out all the time, that's what you're doing, unless you're working, literally working on a loan. If you're not, you're on a it's a dialer, right? And they're feeding your calls, and you're just, you know, either you know, trying to take an application, if a customer calls back, maybe someone you have in process, there are always things just don't, don't answer the phone right away, let it go to voicemail. Then when you finish, you know, you know, finish, then call them back. But the presence that you are busy and you're not going, I don't believe, and you can touch on this, because you're unable to run out there at the drop of a hat, because, you know. That employee who would have done it has the recital to go to, or to three o'clock basketball game at the high school or whatever it is. So you let him go do that. That inspection is going to be done, you know, scheduled for the next day is not the end all. And I think a lot of us feel at a small business that we have to drop the hat and run and I know real estate agents do it all the time, instead of, you know, hey, this is our schedule. We got to see we have, we have this time, this time. We're doing this, and we're doing this, we need to go, you know, get physical therapy, whatever it is that's our time. Set the time you haven't you tell you that customer, I have an appointment, but I'll get to you as soon as I get back. Or, you know, tomorrow morning, I'll call you first thing, whatever it is. But we it's that balance of that we're going to lose, the fear of losing that customer.

Brian Lunsford  35:44  
Yeah, we're playing the long game. So what I find is these top agents, in particular, they understand if, if it's rare that, that we'll miss an inspection because we have other inspectors that are awesome, and they'll step up and go do it as needed. But the times where we have to reschedule something, these top agents, they're in the same boat. They're building the same cultures. They get it. They respect that. As a matter of fact, if they hear that an inspector had to miss something for a child, they probably respect the company and that inspector even more. It's a little bit of a headache for them that day to kind of coordinate with the buyer or whatever. But they would understand that, especially considering that for us, communication is massive. Transparency is important. So we're just going to tell them the truth. We're going to be upfront about it, and you do that, and certainly it's worked for us for a long time. Just be honest and play the long game, and it'll all work out. And to your point earlier, yes, all of our companies, it just worked out this way, where, obviously they can all feed each other, but there are plenty of top producers that we deal with all the time in Jacksonville. Real producers that that for whatever reason, they have someone else they like on the home inspection side, no worries. Like, we go have coffee with them, we hang out with them, we support them, and everything they do. So it's just a different mindset. Like, we just, it's so it's totally fine, like, if we're there, if you ever need us on those other companies, but if you got somebody you like right now. Cool, no worries.

Tracy Hayes  37:01  
I take the same attitude. The reality is, you know, world enough to realize stuff happens. Stuff happens to people's lives. And you know, if you're there at the moment of their greatest need, you can score a lot of points and just being available and having the good instead of getting bitter about it. You know, we all get, oh, they chose that other company. We have that moment, as anyone will, but to drive on to know that I'm here. I'm here for the long haul. I'm here consistently, and stuff happens. Someone screws up alone. I heard I had a realtor tell me that the other day, they broke off relationship with their lending partner for a while because of, you know, couple couple things added up, and then a loan got screwed up, and so they decided to go and search out other ways, you know, other other partners. So it's happening all the time, you know, or someone gets transferred out of loan, Officer here, partner, your spouse, gets transferred, and they're gone now that whoever they were servicing need help.

Brian Lunsford  37:59  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's the heart that ultimately matters in in any business, like, if your customers, partners, or whatever, see that heart, that's really the most important thing, because they know you're working on their behalf to get the best job done you possibly can. I think of like if you go to a restaurant and a waiter, a waitress, is working their tail off, and they spill a drink all over you, there's some people that may get very mad and not tip them. If that person's working their tell all and apologize and obviously made an honest mistake, I'll be inclined to tip them more because they're working. They're going to learn from that. They're going to get better. It's just a it's just, it's a mindset shift. Some people choose to kind of take the opposite of joy, and what our team, teams, plural, choose is to go with joy and and it's funny how it all works. When you're kind to other people, it comes back around.

Tracy Hayes  38:46  
Yeah, that's a great announcement. You know your example there was awesome, because I do see that in the restaurant. Now. I do see others where waitresses like upset me when I ordered. They come by. Hey, you want something? Oh yeah, when you refill, okay, great. And also, then they disappear. They forgot about you. Yeah, that, that upsets me. But I do know when, when they're when they're hustling and so forth. And, you know, like I said, you feel that you pick that up, because we've all been there, you know, if you haven't waited tables, you haven't done, you know, if you haven't actually done and dug holes or, you know, that kind of kind of stuff when you were, you know, younger, you don't appreciate a lot of what these, these people are doing every day. 100% you know, I was talking to somebody just, just economics right now, I'm feeling for a lot of people, because the cost of everything just double, and I know their income hasn't doubled, so it's, it's just like, I feel sorry because I could go out, yeah, we could stop at a fast food restaurant, which is pretty much more expensive. You might as well go to a sit down place, yeah? And I feel for some of those people, because they're they are where they already were working hard. Now that's doing, but that's my little political say I go off on that for a little bit. I wanted to circle back. Okay, I gestured. You agreed with me that majority of the home inspectors out there are, you know, one two man operation type stuff going on. And and, you know, God bless any other they probably provide. I would, just like small businesses in America provide 50% of that of that industry's people to get together. Because your biggest challenge, on a higher level, with a couple several of these other companies that you're talking about, and across the spectrum where you are having crews, whether you got some of these big electrician crews or plumbing companies that got, you know, 20 vans and so forth and crews out there, your biggest thing is that culture, hiring the right people and keeping the ball rolling. What are some of the things that that you've discovered? You know, give some small business owners on here might be watching some insights of, you know, again, that stuff that didn't work. And then what, what you're, you know, doing today, and always working on,

Brian Lunsford  40:49  
slow to hire, fast to fire. I mean, if there's cancer, cut you got to cut it out. That's number one. If you've got somebody on your team and you have a gut feeling, you know that, or even more so that that's the case, then you got to part ways. And you got to part ways fast. That's, that's that's huge. Another thing is, during the hiring process, and I've, you know, over time, when you add it all up, probably 150 people, 200 people. When you add it all up, I've hired almost every time, and probably every time, if I really went back and looked at it, that if you have a gut feeling during that interview process, you're probably right. Go with it. Go with your ingestion. Yeah, and don't hire out of desperation. I know we get in these cycles where you get crazy busy. You got to bring in people fast. It will come back to bite you. You'll the loss of momentum, the loss of time, training, the loss, obviously, paying the person, and the just all these that the time, which is critical, you lose, is way too high to risk hiring the wrong person. And we still do it every now and then, but we've gotten a lot better at it. We're trying to, you know, again, I don't, I don't do the hiring anymore, but we've, we talked to our team about, if you have that gut feeling, go with it.

Tracy Hayes  41:52  
Well, it's constantly, like you said, all of a sudden, couple people quit in the same month or week or whatever, and you're caught behind the eight ball says, or all of a sudden, you know, interest rates drop, and also everybody's got their house up for sale and everybody wants to buy it. And also you got all these orders coming in for whatever it may be I wanted. I mean, what statement I lost?

Brian Lunsford  42:13  
Let's just say to that point real quick, I'm not it is tricky, because there's times where you you have customers banging down the door, and you don't have enough people, it does happen. But what I've also found is is that the people that you have that are there pushing a business forward, they'll find a way to make it happen. They'll find a way to make it happen. Does that that might mean hiring some kid part time to go do some labor with a pest control technician? Whatever it is, it is evil that when circumstances dictate it, whether it's a bad economy in a bad situation, or a really good one. In the case, we're talking about the people that want to be with you and you want to have on that team, long term, they'll find a way to get it done.

Tracy Hayes  42:51  
Hey, folks, this episode was produced by streamline media, the number one media company for helping brands generate content that converts. I knew I wanted to start a podcast to reach more people and bring value to the world, but I did not have the time or the knowledge. Streamlined media became my secret weapon to building my show. They handle all my back end work, production and strategies to keep my show going strong. If you're in the real estate business and looking to make content that generates more leads and brings in more revenue, check out the streamline media link in the show notes and discover how partnering up can supercharge your path to real estate excellence. You've created two questions here that I think are so crucial to any small business, and especially one where we're somewhat fluid at different times and different demands. Or, you know, like I said, somebody that you don't expect quit or leave or whatever, get sick or whatever it might be, and has to leave staffing. When you're you're working with your VPS on your levels, I think in my past, experience in telecommunications, working in a retail store, you know, 20 some years ago, they the big corporations, just keeping the right amount of people there, right? You don't have that extra person that really can polish things off, so to speak, so that everybody's not overloaded and then for doing a poor job. What is your what's your attitude when it comes to, you know, the amount of staff that these companies based on the business levels you're at. Well, the

Brian Lunsford  44:24  
cool thing is, there's numbers out there that we can gather, and we have our own numbers. We have competitors that'll share numbers. We have other data points we can pull in. And we're building for scale. We're looking, we're not looking to be the biggest company the fastest, but we're definitely looking to grow. If we're not growing, you know, what are we doing all this for? Why even?

Tracy Hayes  44:40  
Well, the joy part, because you know joy comes when you're a little content yourself, right? You're a little happy and you can spread joy is a little easier when you're under the gun, because you're having to do extra two Inspections today because too many people called out sick, and you're having to cover stresses in the you're left. Quality Control goes down, right? What is, are you an over staffer, in a sense, having, making sure you always have, you know, maybe one or two extra people than what you really need, just so everyone can work at a pace and do really sometimes.

Brian Lunsford  45:16  
I mean, there may be situations where, well, you know, kingfish will hire a couple of extra technicians when we know Spring is coming or same thing in the home inspection side? Yeah, our team will look at everything as a whole and see what makes the most sense. You look at finances, you look at the market, you're looking at a lot of different indicators. We're just we're going to hire the right people, as a matter of fact, it's another point on on hiring is that we've seen talent come about when we didn't need them, but we still hired them so and when we probably shouldn't hire them yet financially, we still have because if you can grab good talent, you grab it. Yeah, so that's big. So I wouldn't say we're one way or the other as far as how we sat, but we want to have the right people for sure. And then as time goes, we'll we'll add or subtract from there. Well, I

Tracy Hayes  46:00  
mean, I again, go, even our agents, right? They, they'll talk about, oh, you know, I got all this business, and their quality has to go down, because they're not, they're not following up. They're not inputting names in their CRM as they because they're the one band, one one woman band, right? They're running around doing all this stuff where, if they took the time that have that one extra higher that's actually doing that stuff, then everyone's working at a comfortable pace, and can really do well, that's, that's kind of my I just, I see too much of that in the large corporations, you know, just trying to run just as what they need. And and where I, you know, I see the the guy who's so many levels up, you know, sitting fat, where it's like, you know, if you actually just, you'd sit fat, or if you actually added this extra staffing on here, you know that, you know, so the the books are kept, well, I remember when I was in retail, that was the, that was my problem. I was the sales guy. I could teach everybody to sell. We were moving the thing, but I didn't have an assistant manager in the store to take care of the back end stuff, the phones that were coming in that needed repair, and they would pile up and and then every night, making sure and going back and checking, you know, the books, make sure that, you know, the cash deposits and all that things were were, you know, lined up correctly. So when the auditors came in, everything was perfect, right, you know. And when the company changes its mind, from sell, sell, sell to hey, we need our back office, things like, hold on a second. Yeah, you hired me to run, run the fly pattern. Now you're asking me to block. I mean, come on

Brian Lunsford  47:27  
to your point. If you're not forecasting, then you will be behind.

Tracy Hayes  47:31  
Yeah, you said your people will find a way. When you said that, my first thought was they're finding a way because you're giving them the tools and the authority to to find a way in your growth, have you have your ability to, like said, hire the right people and then trust in them to do it.

Brian Lunsford  47:54  
So I've evolved big time over this. I mean, I there was a time in in Atlanta that if it's a marketing item, I wanted to see it, and I wanted to kind of double check and, you know, jump right in. I I'm a million miles away from that. Now, what I've found is that by stepping back and letting them do their thing. Yes, some mistakes might happen, we they may have been able to avoid if I jumped in there, but it's not worth the cost of that saps their creativity, that saps their energy, let them do it, and I find out. What I've come to learn is that oftentimes, oftentimes they create something better than I would have anyway. So it's a win. It's a total win. I'm able to then zoom out a little bit, focus on the next market, or the next business, or whatever, and they're actually producing incredible content, inspections, leadership, whatever it is, across the board.

Tracy Hayes  48:39  
Well, I mean, I always use the analogy as sales people or your technicians that are out and all your companies that are out there are the point of the sword, and there has to, you have to have the right supply sergeant or whatever that keeps the the lines of supplies coming to them and that, like, that's physical, or Just, you know, you don't want them bogged down, worried about the fuel bill on the van, or whatever, the van needing repairs or something, you know, if you got a fleet of vans out there. So, you know, you when they come in the shop in the morning, they need to know that there's those chemicals are there that they need to, you know, for the pest control side to utilize, that they need to have their tools, and when they do, they can excel at what they're doing. If they start worrying about, hey, Brian's up there goofing off and playing golf and going the Jags game, and I can't even get, you know, another ladder or whatever it is, you know what I mean, that type of attitude, it starts to create a negative thing that the really, the person behind the scenes, can really set the attitude for, for for everyone. Yeah, really, and that's looking up. That was what. So when you said, find a way, my immediate thought was they find a way, because you're giving the long leash to to

Brian Lunsford  49:59  
it, the tools you. Mentioned. Those are minimum standards. Like, in my opinion, if you're going to run a successful business, you've got to have that and then some. But I think you know what you mentioned. You know, Jags games call I want them to be out there with me. I want them to whatever they know that's my passion, but their passion might be going hunting or fishing or whatever it is. Tennis. I want them to go do that. I want to see pictures of them doing that again to me when I'm 100 years old, looking back, hopefully, maybe even older, and looking back, it's we're not going to, you know, the home inspection reports important, but at the end of the day, doing these things with family and friends and for yourself and your mental health, your physical health and all that is, it's not even close. It's much more important. So we want them to do all those things and again. Then what happens is, you'll get, you'll get those team members you want because they fit that. They come in and and they'll do whatever it takes to satisfy everybody there and exceed expectations of everybody we work with.

Tracy Hayes  50:55  
You. Mentioned earlier, you know, the being involved in the Jags has put you in rooms. You know, we all talk about the five people that we surround ourselves, so you're mixing and mingling with some of these national, international, successful people. But they just as I look at Ryan sir Hayes book, big money energy. He describes how walking down the streets of New York and these Wall Street guys are just, you know, the big money energy that they they put off. But the attitude, the way you're creating your companies, the way you're the culture you mentioned that word as well, is there to surround yourself by other leaders, other business owners, that have that same attitude, and they're in there. They're just, they're just constantly molding that. Okay, what are some of the things that you've picked up? Have you have gotten any direct tips from someone that you'd like immediately went and implemented into your company? Or just just some, you know, greater vision, some of the stuff that you got from these these interacting with these people,

Brian Lunsford  51:55  
there's definitely some of that. But where I'm at now, for me, it's harmony over hustle. So I am trying to become, get more uncomfortable every day with things that I know are somewhat uncomfortable for me, whatever that is, whatever that looks like, both physically working out or whether that's trying to seek out mentors that I feel like are way too high to go after, but I still do. And you know, what's crazy is that you know, you try, that they respond, you get to go meet with them. Then that leads to another mentor, and that leads to an even higher you know, more procedure, whatever, whatever your you know, 100% whatever that looks like to you. But it is that some of the people that I now have in my phone that I can text that I was, some of them from celebrities, pro athletes, to these, these big time business owners you're talking about to me that that is where I'm trying to hone myself now, hone my skills on being a better leader, because they're obviously doing something right at these levels, and they are more than willing to share. And I have tried, I mean, I snuck a letter to meet someone that I did have their phone number, email address. I snuck in a Christmas card. I'll try anything, and it took a while. But also, I got

Tracy Hayes  53:00  
you in a Christmas card, you added a little note to the person you're sending the Christmas card to hopefully

Brian Lunsford  53:05  
introduce you to someone else. So what it was, was, we, you know, we're blessed to live around a lot of very successful people, right? And Kristen knows a lot of, a lot of people in our neighborhood, in particular, the wives, right? And so she knows the wife really well. Okay, I didn't know the husband really well. I want to talk to the husband. So that's just, that's an example, and I won't name it. Name says a lot of these, but, but so I hijacked the Christmas card with my letter, and it took a few months I got it. It worked, and learned so much. And that continues on today.

Tracy Hayes  53:33  
Do you find that they're actually somewhat flattered by the fact that you, you know, want to chat with them that that you want to hear about their experiences,

Brian Lunsford  53:44  
I find that they are just like we all are. They are just like we all are. They just took the shot. They just didn't stop. I mean, so many people, so many of us, I feel like we get right to the edge, and then we retreat. And these are the people that say it's looking it's looking crazy, but I'm gonna keep on. And they push on through just a few more feet, and they're there. I think that's that. That's what I found. That's what struck me, is that man, they are, they are normal, just like we are. They're just finding ways to get things I've

Tracy Hayes  54:10  
said that you use that analogy of the swinging swing the AX one more time, swing that pitchfork one more time, and where they turn around. And I know there's a cartoon about it, where the guy's in the mine, he's he's chipping, chipping away, and he's one chip away from the Golden Nugget that's behind here, or the diamond. And they turn around and walk out, and the next guy comes in, swings at one time, and it falls out, right? Man, you know, you're, you know, I think we've all do. I think we're seeing a lot of in our industry, in the real estate realm, as well as, I'm sure as real estate agents are falling out. I know there's loan officers falling out. I'm sure there's inspection companies that might be, you know, obviously being sucked under because of that type of thing. And that they've, they've just, they've got to figure a way to hang on, especially, you know, right now, during this just uncertain time we have, we it could turn around tomorrow. Zero. It could be six months for now. We don't know a lot. I think we're in a bubble here in Northeast Florida, where other areas are. It's not so hot. So we don't, we don't fully know, but you got to keep you just got to hang in there, yeah. And sometimes you have to go thin. And I say to myself every morning, you know, I was like, okay, the Lord's testing me to that. You're testing me, right? You're testing me. I'm gonna swing, I'm gonna swing the AX one more time. When I keep doing it, keep doing it. Keep doing it. But you've, you've you're living it, and you're around these people who are testing it this. You're not reading it in a book, but you're actually talking to people who are telling you this.

Brian Lunsford  55:31  
These are people who have been around. I mean, I was around in Oh, eight when that that market was around, and we actually grew in market share, I feel like through covid, like to your point earlier, about just hang on. Just hang on. But the ones that don't that's okay too, because you can actually pick up market share when things go down normalize, or go up when you when it goes up, everybody's everybody's winning, and nobody's really exposed. When it starts to go down, go back to Oh, eight, or you go to an uncertain time like even to an extent. Now they get exposed. So if they're not doing the fundamentals, they're not picking up the phone, not calling, they're not doing what you need to do in whatever the profession is that you're in, they it's the spotlights on, and they won't be around long. And that's all right. It kind of weeds out the people that probably shouldn't be in there anyway right now. Maybe it's in the future form, but not at that moment. And then you pick up market share. So I, you know, a lot of people get really worried. I'm I get kind of excited about it, because I feel like this is an opportunity for us to we can we can come up with new ideas. We can pivot. We there's so many cool things we can do, and then at the end of the day, we'll probably grow during it as well. The somewhat

Tracy Hayes  56:34  
diversification that you have is that something that you planned earlier, it just came, just so happened to just come as things develop. You saw, hey, there's a need for joy lights. Oh, okay, well, you know, I've got the pest control. I know that when you know, hey, why don't we add the home inspection? Because you did that. You did a home inspection in Atlanta, right? Yeah. So, I mean, did that kind of diversification come naturally or just, I mean, I wouldn't say naturally, but just gotta you saw the need and filled it, or was it actually a plan?

Brian Lunsford  57:04  
So the company in Atlanta, like I said earlier, was under one umbrella. So we knew, you know, I knew in my heart that at the in the future, it would be, it'd be better if they were separate, because you never know. There could be an exit. There could be, who knows, there's a lot of factors to have

Tracy Hayes  57:18  
pest control, right? Well, I, and I told, to that point,

Brian Lunsford  57:21  
I've told my team members, because there's a lot of, you know, there's always talk in pest control, and now, even in the home inspection industry, on people buying up companies. And I've made it crystal clear to my two VPS that if that happens, I want them to be the ones to find out, or if I find out they're coming to the first meeting, I want them in the room. They're going to be in there, and they're gonna, they're gonna ride whatever it is with Chris, and they're gonna ride it to the people that got us to wherever we're they're gonna ride with us at the end as well. So to that point, but yeah, I just knew that there's a lot of reasons, from liability to, you know, exits to whatever it is, it's good to break it out. So when we did sell to Terminix, termin X loved our our culture, and they kept our name, so we had to kind of break everything else out by default. It happened. So it was perfect. And then I just knew everything else after that would also be separate.

Tracy Hayes  58:06  
What are the conversations that you're having now with your you know, your leadership, you know, what are some of the challenges that you're just you know, obviously, they change every season. They change every day, whether it's employee issues or this that. What are the conversations that you guys are having? You know, this quarter, I know you guys do. I think you just recently, like last month, you you kind of each of the companies you do a little like town, like

Brian Lunsford  58:31  
a retreat town. Sometimes it's just, you know, it'll be at our clubhouse, or somewhere else, just off site, away from a computer. But, yeah, what are some of the challenges? It's like anybody else. I mean, you're talking what we talked about earlier with scale. You're always talking about employees. You're talking about situations where something could be developing positively or negatively, and then how are we going to tackle it? How are we going to approach it? How does the market look? What are like our last meeting, we were looking ahead to this year, and so, you know, a lot of that meeting was spent on All right, what are these targets? We got to have a target, have something to go after. And so what does that look like? Some years that target might change. The whole thing may be different. It may not always be revenue. In some cases, a lot of times it is. It's an easy one to watch, profit, same thing. So that's it's typical stuff. But the cool thing is, is that Kristen and myself, we don't go into the room. We know what all are. It's not like that. We want a spirited debate. We want disagreements. We it's always done in a very considerate way. And then we think if you do that, you'll get the best answer. And so that's that's our kind of, our take on that.

Tracy Hayes  59:33  
The two VPS that you've that you have now, have they grown up to their level in others being through promotion, or were they hired as that? Yeah.

Brian Lunsford  59:42  
So the one vP was with me at Atlanta, and ultimately, it all worked out where, you know, he was excited and came to Florida. The other one came in at a different position, and we knew right away that that she could, she could go on the opportunity. So, yeah, and then so both Brian and Michelle have both gone straight up.

Tracy Hayes  1:00:00  
Give us a give us an example. You say, you know they're running the company. They're there, seeing the day to day. You know things they're doing, the hiring and the firing and so forth. Give us something, and you don't have to mention names that they're listening. They'll know the story, but anyone else listening won't know the difference. But are sometimes where you disagreed with them and whether you went with their idea. Said, Okay, roll with it. Let's see where it goes. Or you said, no, no, we can't do that, that we're going to fall off a cliff. What are some kind of disagreements that you may have, or just difference of opinions?

Brian Lunsford  1:00:31  
I mentioned earlier that I love a risk, so it's to to a fault, probably. I'm very blessed to have Kristen. She's a sounding board. And then the two VPS a lot of times. So a lot of times it'll be things like, where I want to amp something up big time, financially, maybe marketing, or something like that. And the VP is like, whoa. How are we going to hit this if we got to do this and this? So that would be the quickest, most recent thing. So you are the visionary I enjoy. You know, most of my ideas are really, really silly, and every now and then one will hit, but I just like, I just like to keep it, keep moving forward and trying new things, tinkering with stuff. I don't like to just sit on my hands for too long without trying something. I mean, they're very good about looking very methodically at it, and should we do it or

Tracy Hayes  1:01:13  
not, and how it's actually the rubber meets the road? Yeah, you have, you have the vision, and they're going, Okay, well, how are we actually going to make that happen? This is going to happen, and that's going to happen, and it's

Brian Lunsford  1:01:23  
just they're the ones that have to do it. I mean, they do every from payroll to writing the check or whatever it is to whatever the thing I wanted to go do to they might have to push back on. That's fine, because, again, a lot of times, most of the time, when we come together like that, we look back and we're glad it went the way it went. Whether I got what I wanted, that timer, it's it's often it works out whichever way the kind of group ultimately came together

Tracy Hayes  1:01:44  
on I imagine it probably hasn't always, but it sounds like, obviously the collaboration. Is there anything recently where you came in and said, No, we're doing this and not not actually taking feedback. No.

Brian Lunsford  1:01:55  
Because again, I think if I do that, that's detrimental to the culture, that's detrimental to the team, that's detrimental to even their mental health, physical health, like no I, I have no interest in doing like I there's nothing that I'm gonna that, you know, unless it was, you know, they're not going to see a child that's that's sick or something like that. Then I might say, get out the door. Go, go, go. But there's nothing that important that I have to come in like this.

Tracy Hayes  1:02:18  
This is what I love about you and your wife, because I could say, sense this from her, and we've never actually sat down had any lengthy conversation like right now is this confidence that you have in your people to fulfill their roles and obviously give them a great place to work at in you know, you know, we probably could have a whole nother conversation on the hiring process, which we probably want to bring in your VP and actually interview them, or what's the hiring, you know, who's actually doing that process? Because it's probably something that anyone out there would want to connect but your confidence in them, and I think one of the you know, as we talked about earlier, one of the things that just holds the fear everyone has, is like making that first hire, and then when you get large enough? Oh, am I going to let someone else make decisions for the company has my name on it, you know? Am I, you know, to be able to have the confidence in those people to do it? Because I think people realize, or don't realize, actually, they don't realize, you yourself, are going to make just as many mistakes as they are, and the fact that they're actually living it, and you're, you know, overseeing multiple companies and seeing things on a 30,000 foot level, they're there in the trenches, and actually can give you more better feedback or make a better on the ground decision on the front lines than you because you're too far. You're you, you position yourself, you know, and you trust their decision, because they're saying and they're going to make, as we know, there's decisions are made every day. We're making 1000s of decisions, every, every, every day we make 1000s of decisions, big and small, and we could just make just as many mistakes as they did. We don't. You don't have you're not. You're not a home inspector expertise. You, like you said, you never climbed up in the in the attic. So we're not, you know, how are we going to tell this is where we want our process to go when you do a home inspection, you're not involved in that conversation, correct, but you trust the guys that have been doing it, that have done it enough times the wrong way that they've kind of tuned down, that this is the best way at the moment, at least

Brian Lunsford  1:04:11  
100% and advice for that person trying to hire that first person or second or third person is that, and this, ultimately, what I had to look at is, if I'm doing it Today, I'm doing it tomorrow. So I mentioned payroll earlier, right? There was not too long ago. I was running payroll. I was, you know, Kristen and me had access years earlier. It was just my brother and I. So we never, it was never out there, other than very, you know, just the owners would see it. I realized, or a few years ago, that, like, again, if I'm doing it now, I'm gonna have to do it tomorrow. So I'm gonna teach someone else to do it so our VPS, they run it all. They have full access to everything they know, every pen Chris and myself make, they know everything. Because if they don't have that full picture, how are they going to run this thing, right? So they see every penny and those respective companies, every single dollar, they know where it goes. And then now they have the autonomy to go out there and they just sit. Decisions now are they have more clarity in their decisions, because they know where the money is and

Tracy Hayes  1:05:03  
where it's going. Your attitude towards it's more important to hire the right person. You can, you know, I'm sure both these people weren't you know, when you first met them. You know, obviously hire them as VPS. You hired them with their initial starting positions. Now they now you they've grown within your company to these positions, what are you doing to provide them, you know, almost like a continuing culture, education, you know, development. There's things that you help them so that they stay sharp.

Brian Lunsford  1:05:34  
We don't do anything like with an agenda of, I'm going to do this so he or she thinks this, but we do things fun and we do team building activities organically. It just turns out where that bond is made. Like Valentine's Day, we took some scooter rides in Amelia Island with some of our team members, like our leaders, just things like that. You really it's you don't have to overthink it. It's really a culture is not that hard to figure out. It's really not and I think they just know what's in our heart.

Tracy Hayes  1:06:02  
Well, I'm talking, I guess my question was more for the from the technical side, right? Yeah, like you said, to oversee all those, all those books they didn't go to school, right? You know, Harvard to be, you

Brian Lunsford  1:06:12  
know, yeah. So with payroll, I mean, I walked them through it a couple times. They they figured it out. They took it and ran with it. With industry related things, like I mentioned earlier, we have that larger group that we're a part of, or a part of other groups. There's always continuing education, pest control, and it is an amazing industry onto its unto itself. There's so much education inside of that industry, so we're constantly sending people different places to learn. So yeah, as far as the technical and that side of it, or our team, yeah,

Tracy Hayes  1:06:39  
honestly, like, like, the way you mentioned earlier, like, trends and stuff. Hey, we know at this time of the year. So that's something they, of course, obviously, haven't grown up in the company they they saw, but didn't necessarily put it to play, but now they're the leadership and understanding, hey, we need to, you know, hey, maybe we need to fire that poison, because we don't, you know, we need to cut back, or we need to hire, or whatever it may be, or, Hey, you know, because of the market conditions, we need to bump everybody, you know, some living wage amount, just seeing those things and constantly be balancing. I think it's, it's not, doesn't come natural to people, yeah, especially, and especially at the leadership levels that they're at, we would like to think that the, you know, Harvard Business School trains those guys to come in and be CEOs of companies, but not really. You know, from that standpoint, I think we're better off hiring a veteran who's been the war and led, you know, dozens of men and women is, you know, going to give you probably better you know, leadership and understanding all those inner workings, since they're being trained constantly to handle that.

Brian Lunsford  1:07:38  
We just did. We just hired, we just hired a veteran for a top position, West Point grad. We've hired multiple veterans on all kinds of different levels over the years. So 100% I would take someone in the trenches in those industries all day long over someone who's book smart company.

Tracy Hayes  1:07:53  
So how many of all the companies Jack's real producers? Because I know Chris has got a couple support staff there through all the how many employees, technically Are you? Yeah, so I

Brian Lunsford  1:08:02  
think when we sold the one in Atlanta was around 100 so most of them went with termites. So we're probably back up to around 40 something. Now, somewhere in that

Tracy Hayes  1:08:10  
ball here, in here in Jax, here in Jack's about 40.

Brian Lunsford  1:08:12  
And that counts Tampa as well. I actually asked

Tracy Hayes  1:08:15  
chat GPT to create some questions. Couple of those questions were chat GPT questions. Awesome. What do we have for the future? What do you I mean, I have my gut feeling is you're going to need another joy, lights fan or, I don't know, you might have a couple vans already, but become Christmas time, you're probably going to need

Brian Lunsford  1:08:30  
another one. Yeah, it's that that business is so much fun, does truly bring joy? Like our installers, who are out there in the field, they, Oh my gosh. They said that the families, especially the ones at dusk, when they were finishing up and they would come out, we had families email us pictures of it. It just, oh, yeah, that's so cool. But yeah, the future for us is, is bright. We are, you know, always looking to do the next thing we you know, one thing that's near and dear to us, to christen, to me, is charitable work. We just came back from a mission trip to build a house in Mexico. All of our companies have a charitable element to them, where a certain percentage of revenue goes over to charities. So that's really big with us, our church, we're a big part of that we love, where we go to church. So we're a lot of cool things happening over there. Showing up physically to us is important again, if you're not taking care of if I'm the owner, leader or CEO and I'm not taking care of my body. What is that saying to our team? So trying to push myself.

Tracy Hayes  1:09:24  
I don't know, everyone can run like you do, but I did my first marathon

Brian Lunsford  1:09:27  
last year. Yeah, I'm gonna take a little bit of break on that. The running still there. I'm a fantastic group of men that a workout group called f3 that I post about a good bit that just, it's an amazing male leadership group that I'm so cool and such a good for the so good for the soul. So just living like a fun, joyful life where just just, just encourage people have fun with it, try to stay out of that negative space as much as possible. We don't watch news at our house, you know, like, every now and then I'll read a Wall Street Journal article, but for the most part, unless it's very specific. Think we're not reading about the run of the mill. You know, thing, terrible things that are happening. We stay away from politics, political science major, but we don't watch. Kristen will let me watch a presidential debate every now and then, but for the most part, that TV is not tuned.

Tracy Hayes  1:10:13  
I shut it off since the last election. So I haven't, I haven't had, yeah, yeah, we don't. I do know Chicago's gonna have a new mayor. That's all I know.

Brian Lunsford  1:10:21  
We made, we talked about that Kristen's not controversial. And I, I kind of feed on some of some of that upload whole game, just because, again, that's that was my major, and I enjoy it. But I, I'll, I'll tap in a little bit around big elections and stuff like that. But we don't. When we moved here in 2016 we

Tracy Hayes  1:10:36  
had turned all that off. I mean, I think I was telling my my dad this. I mean, because he grew up, obviously reading the newspaper, right? That's what you did every morning you got the newspaper and you read the newspaper coffee or, you know, when you had a break at work, you're reading the newspaper. But there's no difference to me, between those those news media companies and like a YouTube or a Facebook whose sole goal is to keep you on their channel correct, and so they're putting stuff that entertains you, whatever, at least YouTube, you can get on a total positive stream and just have all this positive stuff, because that's what you like. So they keep feeding it to you, where the news media just feeds off, that it can really just, I mean, you start changing, you know, your mind, like, Oh, I gotta turn this thing off, right? And some people don't ever come to that conscious level saying, What am I? What am I listening to? And shut it off? I totally agree. If we finish with this red Heather mother hand, I know Kristen was there in the audience before that, and she mentions one of the things where it's there, you know, book over there overcome your villains and in your, your personal life, in in through your you had to have some people that were, you know, fall under those villains, some of those people, that's like when she said her she thought was a friend, but every time she had lunch with her, she just felt like down when she left, because a friend was politely, basically putting her down during a long way to subscribe. What? What do you? What do you? What have you done in your life to kind of like I said, we shut off the news. That's easy. We just click Switch. But kind of, you know, distance yourself from those who don't bring joy.

Brian Lunsford  1:12:14  
Yeah, and that's exactly what you do. You distance yourselves from them, and you cut them out. I mean, in the example you're using, that happens, there's no reason to have lunch and waste your time. Time is with me. Time freedom. You know, that's the most important thing right now. And if someone was doing that and bringing my energy down or being negative, I want to know part of that the people that are gossiping and being negative, that's, there's no place for that inside of our personal life or a business life, there's just not. It's just not, and that includes family, friends, acquaintances, whatever. If it gets to that point, then we need to push away a little bit. And I'm I've tried to be very intentional on doing my part on that side of it as well. So stay away from the negativity as much as possible, and then surrounding yourself with people that do inspire you, that that are doing good things, that are taking care of their bodies, that are doing amazing things in business, be surrounded by those kind of people and the and then, and then you get inspired as well.

Tracy Hayes  1:13:12  
I have found because there was a point where, you know, I was getting, you know, politics and doing so, but really for over two years now or longer I, you know, shut from on my social media, because social media will feed you what you click on. It'll keep feeding you that same kind of material. And if you shut that out of your life and now start clicking and liking, you know, people's positive posts or making comments, that's the post you're going to start getting to feed somebody you could really as we spend much of people spend on social media could really clean up that just simply by only responding, don't like, these negative things get out of, you know, these rants that people go on. And also, you'll just see your social media clean line pretty

Brian Lunsford  1:13:56  
quickly, actually, yeah, to me. I mean, one of the saddest things is you go to a restaurant and, you know, the two parents are on their phones and the kids are just sitting there, all four of them are like, there's got to be boundaries. Yeah, social media has its its benefits, for sure, but there's another dark side of it as well. A lot of people don't want to acknowledge that it is there. So you got to be careful, the political game, the religious game, whatever it is when I say that, I say that in such a way of pushing agendas on people, whether it be politically or religious, there's just some Hot Topic things that it just makes no sense whatsoever to try to opine on. In my opinion, at least in our life, we don't do well. I've come to the

Tracy Hayes  1:14:35  
ultimate opinion is, you know, that's why I mentioned your confidence that you guys have in your people. You can also have that in people that are around you and interacting. In some people, you know, if you feel they're being misled, I mean, you really might as well bang your head against the wall, because they will never admit they've been misled. They'll have to find out. And cycles happen and come around. Now, some you know, we don't, hopefully, want to wait for a long cycle, but we have, you know. Like the business, you got to let that person go out there and find out for themselves. I mean, there's only so much you can guide them and so forth. So you, like I said, Yeah, to try to put your political opinions or religious opinions on somebody, versus maybe just showing them a direction, and they don't want to take it. Move on. Just Joe. Don't make it. Don't make it a big deal. From that same way, I want to, let's finish up, since you brought it up since you brought it up a little bit there and made me think of your kids. So imagine your, well, your, you know, your father had a successful business, but not to the level that you have. I would imagine I'm just and you correct me if I'm wrong. And what you're being able to provide your children, what are some of the things that you guys focus on? Because you did still talk about family time. I know you guys. You guys are hitting some golf balls here recently and that sort what are you what are you trying to instill in your kids? Obviously, I assume that they're whatever they decide to do, they're going to be be leaders themselves. What are some of the things that you're, you're doing with the fam?

Brian Lunsford  1:15:55  
Yeah, well, every day, God, Kristen, Jake and Abby. That's that's everything to me. Everything else is there's other important items too, right after that, but for me, God, Chris and Jake and Abby. So I'm just trying to work on myself every day to get better, to make sure that whatever life they want to live, Jake and Abby want to live long term, they'll have opportunities to do that. Now, you know, one of our biggest challenges, anybody who's, you know, living in certain areas, you have a lot of things that that others may not have. And so I think one of our biggest challenges as our kids are eight and 10 years old, as they get older, is we got to make sure they understand like we're very blessed in what we have. We have to serve others like that. That service and giving back and things like that are critical. So we try to instill in them very early how important that kind of stuff is, as before we get into those years and beyond, which I've heard stories from other people, can be tough, yeah. So that's the big thing for us, just making sure that they have, you know, strong foundation to build from, so they can go after whatever they want.

Tracy Hayes  1:16:55  
Have you or do you feel they're at the jet to where you kind of expose them to, to, you know, I know Chris is very involved with like re threaded and the the juvenile detention center have, have you exposed them a little bit to that to to, so they have an understanding that not everybody has it the way they have it.

Brian Lunsford  1:17:15  
Yes, and we travel, they'll see, you know, homeless people, and they'll ask questions that'll give us an opportunity to bring up a conversation. They've done charitable work at Christmas time for the for the soldiers. They have we, we made a video. I made a video of our mission trip, so I showed them that, and we had a discussion after that. As a matter of fact, we're going to try to take them on a mission trip soon so they can experience it as well. So without question, that is huge. Like again, at the end of the day, all this stuff. A lot of the stuff we all talk about is just noise. But what are the important things? Where's your energy really? Where should your energy really be focused? You focus the energy. What I found in the right spots. Everything else takes care of itself.

Tracy Hayes  1:17:53  
It's finding the right spots. Brian, anything else you want to add

Brian Lunsford  1:17:57  
on? No, I appreciate you having me

Tracy Hayes  1:17:59  
on great conversation. I mean, I we definitely, we could talk all afternoon about about business. One of my challenges in life is I often have said, many times I should have been a psychology major, because sometimes I'll get caught up in the like, why did that person do that? Why? Why did they say that? Or, why are they not? Because that's my curiosity, which sometimes leads to gossip. Unfortunately, that's, that's my little negative thing. It's because I just have this curiosity about people and why they they do certain things. And you know, my curiosity with you and Kristen is the high level and the the confidence you you have and people, and then run a company, a home inspection company. You've never done a home inspection. A lot of people be like, Well, how do you, you know, how do you do that, unless you're like, Elon Musk or something, and it just, you know, stroke a check and, you know, have a, you know, have a big company created. I mean, you, you've grown it. Grown it that way. And it's just that, it's, it's another level. And how some people not to say that not everyone can have it, but everyone reaches that lid or fear level. You know that, like you said, to make that one extra swing of the X, to take that one extra step, keep doing it for another day or another week or another month, and all of a sudden, YouTube video goes viral, and all sudden you're oh one second

Brian Lunsford  1:19:22  
I go back to a JV basketball when I play best

Tracy Hayes  1:19:29  
coach, yeah, Bob Masterson, love you, brother, you're still out there. I know you are.

Brian Lunsford  1:19:36  
I just, I just look back on it, and I'm like, there were tons of times where I would pass, this is a long time ago, but I would pass the ball, and I look back like, why did you not just shoot it? Like you were a good shooter. Why did you not just shoot it? And there was a long gap of years where I didn't think about that, but as I get older, I go back to that all the time. Now I'm like, just take the shot. Just shoot it. What is it gonna hurt you? Miss, okay, fine. You learn from it, and you'll make the next. One.

Tracy Hayes  1:20:00  
That's what I'm teaching my son. I my i telling him, you know, he was on this fall, this winter team, and there was, there's some good ball players, some quick boys. But I said, Dude, you what you can do is just as good. Just because he's a really great bowl handler, better than you, does not mean he's taking better shots, right? You know he's, yeah, they are making some layups, but I've seen you at other times, because they had the three on three league, where you get a little bit, where I've seen you turn around and hit four three pointers in just a few minutes, because you didn't think about it. You just went and cleared the ball and popped that shot swish. You were wrong with it. And then when we got in the five on five, he was a little more advanced, like, no, they let it rip. You got an open shot. That's your shot. You got to take it.

Brian Lunsford  1:20:42  
There is nothing that brings more joy than watching the children finally hit that pinnacle of making the shot or scoring the goal, or whatever it is. I know with Jake and his touchdowns on the tackle football field, the first one he had his, I could see zoom was zooming in. And of course, I'm rolling on it right, and I could see that huge smile. And then the other day, I'd she led her team in scoring and basketball. Was just drinking shots left and right, just to see her little face. Same thing. Of course, I'm rolling on it and I zoom in and just to be able to go back and look at those smiles, there's nothing that brings, you know, more joy to us than than seeing that.

Tracy Hayes  1:21:15  
Well, you know, I want to, if I can go, if I'm not, not a rant, but I was, you know, my son goes to one of the local basketball there's several around, but these guys got their own gym and so forth. And I got to know one of the guys who was running one of the gyms, and he was, you know, talking about the level of some of the players. I said, Hold on a minute, bro, because he was talking about some of the players were there because they felt parents just dropped them off. And it was like a babysitting thing for an hour and a half. Whatever. I said, Hold on, you don't know what's going on in that kid's life all day long, and it might have been miserable. And so he's miserable coming here. It's not that he doesn't want to be here. It's because he knows where he's got to go in an hour when this is over and it's and it's not good. But all of us, you and I, you talking about JV basketball was the best years of my life, and my basketball coaches and Bob Masterson love you, and I need to reach out to him the plays that go on in my head, you know, we only remember that whatever shot we made or the steal in the past we made, those are the things we live with as adults, And to create those opportunities where, you know she probably, she might not even remember that game, because there's another game that's going to supersede that later on, but they'll only remember a few of those plays, and that's what all that matters, is giving them the opportunity that that she was to, that it might be the last time she was the top scorer on the team. We don't know, right? But that opera that she's going to live with that and those memories, as you your, I have JV basketball memories, as obviously you do, too, and we, and we still play those in our mind.

Brian Lunsford  1:22:51  
You're, you're taller than Macy, your memories are probably,

Tracy Hayes  1:22:55  
it was fun. Yes, appreciate you coming on. You know, obviously we should have both. She was just, I was thinking about, is having a couple of your inner circle, you know, that you, you talked about just, you know, two or three in a little business roundtable would probably be a great show. I think everyone, especially this, you know, the realtors, I think you know, because they're small business owners too, and all these owners around here that need, I think need more of these masterminds. Need more of these collaborative groups that you've, you're part of and created. So Brian, I appreciate you coming on. Thanks for having me. All right, you can reach Brian. Is no what, what information he'll give me. So you can reach him. We'll be in the show notes, and he is on, he is on social media, so you can definitely reach out to him there, as he's posting his kids photos all the time, so and his travels as well. So thanks for coming on, bro. Thank you.