Cindy James: Empathy, Listen, Plan Top Agent Jacksonville

REE #269 Transcript

[00:00:00] Cindy James: In real estate, it's critical because everything is time sensitive. You've got a contract, you've got specific dates you have to meet. So you almost have to look at your process almost as a mandatory thing to make sure you're meeting those timelines and the contractual obligations. Time is of the essence, and it could cost a lot of money not only to you, but to your client.

[00:00:49] Tracy Hayes: Hey, welcome back to the Real Estate Excellence Podcast. In this episode, we sit down with a woman whose career is the definition of reinvention, resilience, and results. She brings a rare trifecta to the real estate table: 30 plus years in corporate leadership, decades of real estate investment experience, and hands-on expertise in construction and remodeling.

Business owner—she's not just selling homes, she's building them, transforming them, and consulting clients every step of the way with the eye of an investor and the heart of a trusted advisor. From leaning into her bilingual roots to serve Spanish-speaking buyers, to leading complex renovation projects with Island Construction and Remodeling, she has built a reputation for precision, professionalism, and passion.

As a broker associate with Align Right Realty Horizons and their 2024 Agent of the Year, she's now inspiring both clients and colleagues with her commitment to military relocation, luxury homes, and neighborhood revitalization. Fluent in Spanish, sharpened in strategy, and fearless in execution, she's a voice worth listening to.

Today, she shares how her background in Six Sigma business consulting and real estate investments converge to help people make smarter, stronger, and more profitable moves in life. Let's welcome Cindy James to the show.

[00:02:06] Cindy James: Thank you so much for having me, Tracy.

[00:02:08] Tracy Hayes: No problem. That does pretty good though—it would take a while to put all that in there, but it makes a great intro. I get a high off reading it actually, and then listening to it later, what I sounded like. But I appreciate you coming down.

And the more I dug into—you know, because you haven't had this long 20-year real estate [career], but you've been involved in doing these things—the investment, you've got the construction and renovation company going there. And I think it's important, because every agent that I've had on comes from a different background. You've got corporate, you’ve got that leadership background, but that construction and renovation, which I think is the untapped [area] right now.

As a lender, we talk about renovation loans all the time, but people are not taking advantage of them, and what they can do with some of these gems that they find throughout any region, really, in the country. These homes that—they got the address, they got the location—but maybe it's 20, 30 years old, or whatever it is that needs to be done. So, renovation.

But that’s what—I got more excited the more I was reading about you and what was going on. But welcome to the show, I appreciate you coming down today.

[00:03:13] Cindy James: Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much.

[00:03:14] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, so tell us a little bit—just a little bit, Cindy—I always like to start off with the easy question: where are you from? Tell us a little bit. Where did the Spanish and the bilingual come in? But what was young Cindy—you know, when she was 18, 19 years old—what were you thinking about doing? What was your career aspiration?

[00:03:31] Cindy James: So, I was born in Puerto Rico. Both of my parents are 100% born and raised in Puerto Rico. Moved away when I was—golly—two, three years old, to Germany. From Germany we moved to Kentucky. I was in Kentucky for kindergarten, first grade, then Georgia for second through twelfth. And then I moved to Jacksonville.

[00:03:49] Tracy Hayes: Service? Your—

[00:03:51] Cindy James: My dad was in the Army.

[00:03:51] Tracy Hayes: Army, okay.

[00:03:51] Cindy James: Yeah, retired military. Yes, he was a drill sergeant. And that has played tremendously in how I operate, because he would bring drill sergeant-ish stuff to the house, right?

[00:04:00] Cindy James: So, you know, we were like boom, boom, boom—we were one of the little soldiers.

[00:04:06] Tracy Hayes: Did you have Saturday morning inspections?

[00:04:08] Cindy James: We had Friday night inspections.

[00:04:10] Tracy Hayes: Friday night inspections.

[00:04:11] Cindy James: We would come home on Friday after school, we all had our chores and—yep. And I can't tell you how many times I would come home from school and all my clothes from my drawers in my bedroom were piled up in the middle of the room. I shared a room with my sister, right? So he would come and look through the drawers—they were a mess.

[00:04:28] Tracy Hayes: The clothes weren’t folded right.

[00:04:29] Cindy James: Weren’t folded right. They weren’t. And I promise you, the one suffering right now is my husband of 27 years because I’ve got all the blue socks lined up, all the white socks. I’ve got all his white shirts—short sleeve, long sleeve. It's like OCD.

[00:04:42] Tracy Hayes: That is great.

[00:04:44] Cindy James: I’ve had to learn to let go of some of that over 27 years, because my husband is total 180 from that.

[00:04:49] Tracy Hayes: But yeah, so if Dad was off on Friday, you knew this was coming.

[00:04:53] Cindy James: White glove—you know, my sheets from the bed, you know, perfect little angle at [the corner]. But I'm super grateful—I’m gonna say I hated it at the time—but so grateful for my dad being that way.

[00:05:05] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:05] Cindy James: But both of us spoke Spanish. Again, like I said, it was fluent, it was their first language.

[00:05:10] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:10] Cindy James: So we would go to school, speak English, we'd come home and it was all in Spanish. And again, super grateful for that as well, because at 18 I graduated from high school and I decided I’m going to Jacksonville. Moved to Jacksonville, started at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida at the time—it’s Florida Blue now.

And I had no experience, I had no education, no college, and they hired me because I spoke Spanish. So, super grateful my parents made me learn Spanish. But I was there for about 30 years. I bought my first home—it was a new construction—

[00:05:59] Cindy James: When I was 22. And I loved the process. I loved seeing how it goes from dirt to this home. I bought my real estate investment property. I lived in it—will never do that again.

I lived in a home that we ended up—my husband and I actually renovated it. We ended up selling it.

[00:06:00] Tracy Hayes: What do they call that? The BRRRR method, right? You buy, you renovate and then—

[00:06:03] Cindy James: Renovate, rent, either refinance—

[00:06:05] Tracy Hayes: —the cash back out of it or move on to another house. Yes.

[00:06:09] Cindy James: It's recommended to hold for at least three years and rent during that time. But it's a great model. And so then I kind of fell in love with the whole renovation aspect. So after 30 years in corporate, an opportunity presented itself where I wanted to move from Riverside to the beach, and I had been in corporate for 30 years. The last 10 years I was a Six Sigma process improvement person, which—I love process improvement. I love pulling a team of people. That's what I should be hired—

[00:06:38] Tracy Hayes: For. I always thought of my—I need—people need to hire me for process improvement. I don't think—I think that's a skill that people don't have, and it's probably one of the reasons why you're having success in real estate, 'cause you're able to put yourself in the shoes of the operator. Right? To me, that's really the break. How is someone going to—if someone comes onto this website, if someone comes, does this—what are they thinking? What's their next step? What are—because I see that. I mean, we see it in everyday life.

Me and my wife are probably really good—we met at work—so we always are talking shop more. But when we go to a restaurant or really anything and see how their processes are set up—

[00:07:30] Cindy James: Yes.

[00:07:30] Tracy Hayes: —we're like, is someone actually watching this?

[00:07:33] Cindy James: That's right.

[00:07:34] Tracy Hayes: Because the really good companies—they're all over that, right?

[00:07:38] Cindy James: Mm-hmm. Yes. So, streamlining is huge to me. When you own a business—and I remember when I first started with construction—my contractor, CBC—the first thing I did was, "Let's map out the process." And he looked at me like I had three heads. He goes, "What?" I said, "Let's map out a process." And I tried to explain it to him and he goes, "Oh no, construction—"

[00:07:52] Tracy Hayes: "Little project management going in here."

[00:07:54] Cindy James: Yeah. "Construction is a different animal." I said, "No, no it’s not." And I still have the photos. That’s the funny thing. Every now and then I’ll run in here—I have these stickies—I mapped out the process. And then you've got your rework loops, decisions—well, how do you remove those rework loops? Because those reworks are the ones that are costing you money as a business owner. Right? And then defects—how do you eliminate defects?

So, defects at the end of the day is what makes your client, your customer unhappy. They don’t want defects. They want the happy path. How quickly can we get through this process with as smooth a process and as accurate a process as possible?

[00:08:40] Cindy James: Right. And you can apply that to anything.

[00:08:42] Tracy Hayes: Yep.

[00:08:43] Cindy James: Everything is a process. We just don't—like you said—we don’t stop long enough to see it, to watch it, to actually map it out. We just go day to day doing what we do, and little things kind of come into play. But you never go back and reevaluate your process like, "Why are we even doing that? That doesn't even make sense." Well, back then we needed to, for whatever the process was, and we just never cut it out.

[00:08:52] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. I think if people really sit down and map out why such—some companies are so much greater than others, we could think of—I mean, if you don’t know Amazon’s name. But I guarantee if we dug into their processes and how they set up their warehouses and how, you know, every step of—from you and I clicking the button—what happens that we never see—

[00:09:14] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:15] Tracy Hayes: —from start to finish and how they’re delivering that package to us in a really short period of time—

[00:09:20] Cindy James: That’s correct.

[00:09:21] Tracy Hayes: —that is constantly being analyzed—how they can do it bigger, better, faster.

[00:09:28] Cindy James: That’s correct, yeah. And in real estate, it’s critical because everything is time sensitive.

[00:09:35] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:35] Cindy James: Right. Everything. We’ve got a timeline—the contract—you've got a contract, you've got specific dates you have to meet. So you almost have to look at your process almost as a mandatory thing to make sure you're meeting those timelines and the contractual obligations. Time is of the essence. And it could cost a lot of money, not only to you, but to your client, if you fall out of contract.

[00:09:57] Tracy Hayes: Oh, I love this topic. Well, you know, let’s drill down on this. I love this.

[00:09:59] Cindy James: Yes.

[00:10:00] Tracy Hayes: Because the end goal is—right—we have this, what do we want to achieve? Obviously a closing—that’s a no-brainer. That obviously has to happen no matter what. But what really is the end goal as a real estate agent through that transaction? Besides the actual closing, what would you—if I'm asking you—what is the end goal that you want to achieve at the end of that 30, 45, 60 days—who knows, six months if you're with a client that long?

[00:10:26] Cindy James: So to me, my end goal is not only get to closing, but get to closing where everyone still has all their hair. They’re not pulling out their hair through the process—

[00:10:38] Tracy Hayes: —and hating you for it.

[00:10:39] Cindy James: That’s correct. And hating you for it. Mm-hmm. So just this weekend, we ran into a glitch on a contract. And I typically like working through issues if I don't have to engage my client—behind the scenes if at all possible, especially when it's a contractual thing. Not necessarily something that’s going to impact them per se.

[00:10:58] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:58] Cindy James: I don't like engaging them in the things that I, as a realtor, should be doing. So at the end of the day, I want my clients to feel like it was an easy process, a simple process, something that they feel very well-educated in. I do spend a lot of time on education—especially first-time home buyers. They have no clue—

[00:11:15] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:16] Cindy James: —what's next. They have no clue what it entails. I would say a seamless, stress-free, easy process that achieves their goal of buying or selling their home.

[00:11:35] Tracy Hayes: Right. And I think you described—they still have their hair. They have not—

[00:11:38] Cindy James: That’s right.

[00:11:39] Tracy Hayes: —you know, aged in that product. But now, you mentioned something there—you do a lot of the things behind the scenes, which the top agents are doing. Right? Cleaning toilets before, going in and straightening out the house before the open house or whatever type of thing. They’re doing those things and not really—you’re not going, “Hey, Mr. Client, I’m cleaning your house right now,” because you just do it.

[00:12:00] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:00] Tracy Hayes: ...forth, I think there's a gap of what the agents are doing. You know, I think the bad language—agents have got a bad rap. I think, well, bad agents have got a bad rap. If people know good agents, they know that—someone like yourself—what you're doing. But the average customer doesn't know all those things that you are doing behind the scenes.

[00:12:24] Tracy Hayes: And I think social media is probably a great way for agents to actually put out there, "Hey, I'm cleaning this person's house." Right? "I'm emptying out the garage. They've already left. The new owners are supposed to be moving in here in a couple hours, and there's a bunch of trash in the garage." You know, I mean, you guys are doing that stuff and I think the average consumers don’t see the value in it.

And you don’t have time to call somebody—they're moving in here in two hours. You don’t have time. And then it’s money out of your pocket, or money there, you're not—you know, all these things are going on. And so I just—when you said that, just made me think about, we still want to let the consumers know in some way, shape or form, great agents are doing these things behind the scenes. We don’t want to hide it too much.

[00:13:16] Cindy James: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I guess that’s a very accurate statement. So while something that I'm doing behind the scenes is occurring, I just go do it—

[00:13:26] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:13:27] Cindy James: —and after the fact—and I’ll give you an example. So I had—

[00:13:31] Tracy Hayes: This—

[00:13:31] Cindy James: —this is funny. So I had a client who was moving to Arkansas. We had sold his home. We were going to do a remote closing at his home. I’ve worked with this person before because I actually sold him the home. So I knew, you know, how he—had a lot going on.

[00:13:49] Tracy Hayes: Right?

[00:13:49] Cindy James: So I got there about 30 minutes before we were supposed to sign. I walk in—now, keep in mind, we’re signing, he’s supposed to be vacating later that day. There were maybe four boxes sitting packed. Nothing else had been moved.

[00:14:08] Tracy Hayes: Oh, not four boxes left.

[00:14:10] Cindy James: No, there were about four boxes full—whatever amount of boxes.

[00:14:15] Tracy Hayes: That’s—

[00:14:15] Cindy James: Correct. So I was like, wow. So we went ahead and did the closing, and I said, “Let me help you pack.”

“No, you got your little dress on, your this, you’re the whatever.”

And I said, “I really don’t mind. I do not mind.”

“No, no, no, no, no. I’ll handle it.”

I said, “Okay. So we’re supposed to be out by five o’clock. So I will contact you, or keep me posted on how you’re doing.”

So again, knowing how things [go], I got there at four—an hour early. I got there at four. He was just leaving to get the U-Haul truck. I’m like, oh no.

[00:14:53] Tracy Hayes: If this hasn’t happened in your real estate career yet—it will happen.

[00:14:57] Cindy James: It’ll happen.

[00:14:58] Tracy Hayes: It’ll happen.

[00:14:59] Cindy James: I was like, okay. And of course, you know, I'm like, okay, problem solve. How are we going to solve this problem, right? So I said, “I’ll tell you what, we’re going to divide and conquer.” I said, “You go get the U-Haul. I’ll stay here with your daughter and I will finish.”

And he had done quite a bit. There were like trash bags lined up on the side of the living room. There was still some stuff that needed to be packed. And again, me being process-oriented—

[00:15:22] Cindy James: —I said, “You do this. How about you do this and I’m going to do this. We’ll reconvene at such-and-such a time.” “Okay.”

So he left. By the time he got back, that whole house had been finished being packed. I contacted a friend of mine—my contractor.

[00:15:41] Cindy James: I said, “Hey, I need your help. Can you come bring your trailer with you?” And that’s the other thing—having resources readily available.

[00:15:47] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Which construction has—people who can act on a moment’s notice.

[00:15:50] Cindy James: That’s correct.

[00:15:51] Tracy Hayes: Those really good friends that'll come get you in the middle of the night—you need a few of those.

[00:15:54] Cindy James: I’m like, I know someone that has a dumper. I know someone that has a flatbed. I know—so he came. We ended up [doing] a pack-out. I asked the daughter, “Okay, this goes, this goes, does this go?” “No, you can trash that.”

So anyways, by the time the dad got back, everything was packed, ready to go. And then—

[00:16:06] Tracy Hayes: Because that U-Haul pickup probably took a couple hours.

[00:16:09] Cindy James: Yeah, easily.

[00:16:11] Cindy James: So he said, “The people are coming to help me put this into the truck.” I said, “Fine.” I said, “So I’m going to head back,” because my contractor had to get back into Jacksonville—this is in St. Johns County.

So anyway, we go down there and I call and I said, “Hey, how’s that going?”

“Oh, I need about another hour.”

Okay. So he then—the homeowner tells me, “Hey, we just got on the road headed to Arkansas. I left the key.”

[00:16:39] Cindy James: Okay. So my husband—I told him, “Can you come with me? Because something tells me I might need your help.”

So anyways, we get there—

[00:16:50] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:16:50] Cindy James: —and I went—I started in one corner of the house and just walked my way all the way around. The first thing I found was his wallet—the seller’s wallet.

I’m like, okay—this nut down. So my husband calls him. I follow through the rest. I was like, “Okay, this is actually really good.”

[00:17:06] Cindy James: Yeah. But with this—the new NAR stuff in the buyer broker agreement and so—I opened the garage door—

[00:17:08] Tracy Hayes: It's full.

[00:17:09] Cindy James: It's full of garbage. Of things they were just gonna get rid of.

[00:17:12] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:17:13] Cindy James: And I'm like, oh my gosh. So I had a Tahoe—we packed up as much as we could in that Tahoe. Fortunately, the purchaser was an investor. So I contacted the investor and I said, “Hey, listen, so here’s what’s happening. There’s stuff in the garage. I’ve taken out as much as I can. I will have a dumpster service come out tomorrow and pick the rest of it up.”

[00:17:39] Cindy James: And he was so kind. He goes, “No, no, no. My guys are gonna be out there anyway to clean things out and get the house ready. I’ll just take care of it.” But I could—I took a picture of this. In the back, my Tahoe was slapped full.

[00:17:48] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:49] Cindy James: Of stuff.

[00:17:50] Tracy Hayes: It is amazing—in the right neighborhoods, if you just put people's stuff out at the edge of the road, it’ll be gone the next morning. You know, decent furniture, whatever—it’ll be—

[00:18:00] Tracy Hayes: gone. So yes, we do a lot. These things—this is the type of stuff that people don’t realize that agents are dealing with on a [daily] basis. And if you haven’t dealt with this situation, it will happen—guaranteed. The garage full of garbage.

I'm trying to remember why—'cause we kind of went off on a slight tangent—but explain. The goal of the transaction is to be successful. What’s successful? Be stressless. So what I was trying to ultimately get out of you—and I’m sure you’ll agree with this—is that the end of that transaction, you now have an advocate.

You now have someone who’s telling anyone who mentions anything about real estate, “You gotta call Cindy. She’s the greatest. Oh my God, she did all this stuff for us. It was a breeze with her, you know? She just made everything wonderful.” Especially someone who’s had a bad real estate transaction—and work with you—they go, “Oh my God!” And then they really—

[00:18:54] Tracy Hayes: Right. So that is the end goal.

So to go back through the processes that we were talking about—what is the process of making that happen? Right? And I think, again, the successful agents are naturally going through and going, “What could I have done differently on that last transaction?”

[00:19:09] Tracy Hayes: Could I have been a little more assertive to have a better home inspector that might have done the infrared, and then we wouldn’t have found the mold three days before closing? You know, I’m sure you have little things like that going on where we go, “Oh yeah, yeah. Here—use any inspector. Here’s a few.” But they went with the cheapest guy, and then that caused problems later on in the transaction.

So—plan, do, review—I think is the word. I forget where I picked that up at, but that was it. This: plan, do, review. You planned it, you did it, and then you’ve gotta go back through every transaction and say, “How could we have done that process better?” Would you agree? You pretty much gotta do it on every one.

And obviously your ultimate goal—can you reach that utopia, right? That perfect transaction?

[00:19:55] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:55] Tracy Hayes: Well, we can get close. I don’t know if there is a perfect transaction.

[00:19:58] Cindy James: Yeah. They're not. So that’s where the Six Sigma comes in.

[00:20:00] Cindy James: 99.9% accurate, right?

[00:20:03] Cindy James: So yeah, I think it—and you bring up a very, very good point. So I've dealt with agents that—you know the ones that go above and beyond, and then you know the ones that—and I hate to say this—you can look at their contract and it’s the truth. Right? They’ve got “Top 500 in whatever.”

And I actually mentioned this—I went to a professional—the Golden Key—it’s a class on professionalism, right? I remember mentioning to the instructor that, you know, I feel like as an industry it’s all about top performers or number of sales and your GCI—

[00:20:34] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:35] Cindy James: —right? How much income did you make, or how much business did you bring in?

But I feel like—and they’re not independently exclusive—but I feel like there has to be more effort and more focus on quality agents out there doing the best that they should be doing for their clients.

As far as going back and looking at, “What could I have done different?” I have used vendors that may have not been the best vendors.

[00:21:00] Cindy James: Right? So, one of the things that I strive for is being a one-stop shop. Right? So I'm helping you to buy a house. I look at it through the lenses of a contractor, of a construction person. I have an inspector. I have inspectors that I trust. I have lenders that I trust.

It’s a team. You have to be backed up by a team of individuals that—because from a client, from a seller/buyer standpoint—when they’re looking at me as an agent, they’re looking at me as the person accountable for the entire—

[00:21:41] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Beginning to end. You're the project coordinator.

[00:21:43] Cindy James: That’s correct. You're the everything, right?

[00:21:45] Cindy James: So you need to have a team that’s there and focused and a team that you can depend on. And the only way to do that—and the only way to provide great service—is to continuously look back: “What could I have done different? Should I—next time I’m gonna try to do this.” Always look to improve. Process improvement is an everyday—

[00:22:08] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:22:09] Cindy James: —thing.

[00:22:10] Tracy Hayes: Well, you brought up a topic that I've been on recently. It’s been on my mind forever, but I kind of made it a point in the last couple episodes.

You know, being—I’ve been in mortgages—it’ll be 20 years in September. And really, the first 12 were more in a call center environment. So we weren’t really building relationships with realtors. But these last eight years, being at what they call “retail,” actually on the street—you know, obviously our main source of referrals is through you guys, through agents.

And the amount of agents that I’ve noticed who don’t create the relationship—I can only bring in the analogy—it’s like dating. You guys are getting called by everyone. You're getting—whether it’s inspectors, lenders, whatever—they want to get your referral.

But you—as the agent—you are the project coordinator. You are in control.

[00:23:00] Tracy Hayes: You're the one calling the shots of who you want to suggest, who you may not even talk about. We don’t know what you’re doing when you’re having that meeting with that client, right?

So if agents really dug down in—you know, yeah, you should have two or three lenders. At least two or three. And always one of those who is—I’ll use an analogy my friend Tom Reber uses—a Swiss Army knife of connections.

Because there are loan types that a lot of lenders don’t do—like VA construction. I mean, you could probably count on your hand how many people do it in town, right? So you might have—that might not be your everyday lender that you’re using, 'cause you have a great [one], but you know—“Oh, you know what? Yeah, Tracy at Planet does VA home cons. This is what I got.”

So—or maybe you got a renovation project—we’re gonna talk about that here in a little bit—you know that this particular person specializes in that. They really focus in on that. They have, whatever, different products, different options—whatever it may be. 'Cause every lender has different overlays. Some—

[00:24:00] Tracy Hayes: —lenders don’t want to take risks on doing that kind of loan—whatever it is. And I’m sure the home inspectors are the same way.

“This is a multimillion-dollar home. This person needs to spend—I don’t know what they’re going for—a thousand dollars? Whatever.” Needs to have all the bells and whistles, right?

[00:24:14] Tracy Hayes: Which I think every home—even new construction—they need to really do. You know, have the infrared and all that stuff done too. But anyway. But you’ve gotta build—lean into them as much as they’re leaning into you—

[00:24:25] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:26] Tracy Hayes: —and create that relationship that they are going to jump out there. Or you’re calling them for a sponsorship or whatever—that kind of thing goes on. But I find too many agents are too—I’m gonna call it wishy-washy. I don’t even know if that’s the correct phrase, but I’m gonna use that phrase: wishy. They want to dance around, “Hey, I’m referring three—”

[00:24:26] Tracy Hayes: But they never really build that strong relationship. Because just like any business—and of course, as a real estate agent, you're self-employed—but the construction business, if someone’s using you all the time, you're giving them back. You're gonna cut them a little slack here. You're gonna get to that job a little faster. You're gonna help—hey, they have a project deadline—you’re gonna do whatever you can to help them meet that because you're leaning on each other.

[00:25:00] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm. And I don't think enough—really—of the top agents, and agents that are listening right now: you need to lean on these lenders. You need to lean on these home inspectors and the other ancillary services—the title companies. You need to lean on them.

Title companies are making a killing out there, you know?

[00:25:18] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:19] Tracy Hayes: They—you don't realize how much money title companies make off these transactions. Right?

[00:25:23] Cindy James: They make good—

[00:25:24] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, they make a good amount of money. You need to lean on them. You need a sponsorship? You need to lean on them. You need co-branding or whatever it is to really move your business. And that's when you create that relationship. It's like having—you create a best friend in business.

I think—just on my little soapbox this morning—but I just—I’m finding that more and more, and I don't think—no one has interviewed as many agents as I have in town. And I can tell you it’s not happening enough.

[00:25:51] Cindy James: Yes, I would agree. I think a lot of my success has to do with that. And I’ll just speak to my inspector. So I have an inspector—I trust him fully. I’ll call him up. I don’t have to go call the main office.

[00:26:00] Cindy James: I call him up—his cell phone—I’ll text him. He’s very responsive. I had him go out to do an inspection for me. He did it. The agent told me, “Yep, all the repairs are done,” like by the next day. And me being me, I’m like, there’s no way. No way.

So I said, “Hey, would—

[00:26:23] Tracy Hayes: —you run by?”

[00:26:24] Cindy James: And he did. Yep. And he goes, “Nothing’s been done.” And I’m like, “What?” So he went—I kid you not—three different times out there for me.

[00:26:35] Cindy James: No additional charge. No additional fee. He does re-inspections at no cost. A lot of inspectors charge for a re-inspection.

[00:26:39] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause that’s your go-to guy.

[00:26:40] Cindy James: That is my go-to, yes.

[00:26:42] Tracy Hayes: Well, he becomes your go-to by earning that sometimes too.

[00:26:44] Cindy James: That’s exactly correct.

[00:26:45] Tracy Hayes: But how many times has that helped you? Because, well—you know, “I just sent the inspector out, and you just told me yesterday that everything was done.” Everything is not done.

[00:26:54] Cindy James: That’s right.

[00:26:55] Tracy Hayes: And here I have a third party of validation. It’s not me going out and saying that, that’s—you know—

[00:26:59] Cindy James: And it’s a friendship.

[00:27:00] Cindy James: Yes, it turns out to be—you know, when I call him, I’m thinking more as a friendship kind of call. “Hey listen, I need your help with—"

[00:27:08] Tracy Hayes: —what,” 'cause he knows he’s getting the next deal.

[00:27:10] Cindy James: That’s correct.

[00:27:11] Tracy Hayes: And he likes working with you. You probably talk him up. And he, of course, talks you up, you know? And that type of thing. And you’ve created that. And then he’ll run out and do those things for you.

[00:27:21] Cindy James: That’s right. Yeah.

[00:27:22] Tracy Hayes: I think that’s one of the things—and again, I can sit down—and I don’t want to make it a lending show or anything like that because I want to talk more about you. But you’ve got to find that person. Create that relationship. And again, if they can’t do it, they know someone that can.

[00:27:38] Cindy James: That’s right.

[00:27:39] Tracy Hayes: That’s the other thing too.

[00:27:40] Cindy James: That’s very true.

[00:27:41] Tracy Hayes: Don’t think that person you’re making the relationship with has to do everything. If they can help you solve the problem—like, “You know what, I need this unique loan.” “Well, we don’t do it, but I know so-and-so does. Let me—here’s their number, or let me call them and make sure they can do it. But I heard they offer that product.”

You know—whatever. I see a lot of the agents I’ve had on—obviously everyone has a different background. We've got some young ones who practically started in college. So they didn’t really have any other experience, you know, in life. But you were the corporate America.

And then—we didn’t really get into, which you could probably add into this answer—how you got into the construction and renovation part of your business. But your corporate experience and how, you know, when working from a client—from the get-go, from the phone call to, you know, how you meet with them. That’s—you know, tell us how you do that.

The agents—I think some of the top agents—they like to meet face to face, if not a Zoom call. They want to make the face, you know, connection—the human connection. But how has your corporate America experience, when you’re doing these—we were talking about, you know, “plan, do, review”—when you had this transaction, how has your corporate experience poured in and made your real estate interactions and experience better?

[00:28:58] Cindy James: So, first as far as from a client’s perspective and how I begin the process—I like meeting in person, 'cause there’s so much value face to face.

Listening—I would probably say—is the number one skill you really need to have. Not only listening to what's coming out of their mouth, but looking at their body language, looking at just how—just everything, right? It’s not just the words they speak.

[00:29:21] Tracy Hayes: What is one of the skills you use—or I’ll say a skill? For instance, one of my things for the podcast was—you know, of course my wife tells me I don’t listen, right?

[00:29:30] Tracy Hayes: So ever since I started the show, my focus is: right, we put our phones on do not disturb. I’m focusing on your answer before—without interrupting you. 'Cause a lot of times in conversations, people—you’re saying stuff, the thought comes in my head and I want to spill it right back out and you haven’t finished your thought.

[00:29:48] Tracy Hayes: And people do that all the time—they start interrupting each other.

[00:29:50] Tracy Hayes: Right. So what are some of the things that you do—like, for instance, that’s why I have the notepad here. I’ll write while you're talking, I’m writing something down so I can then return my focus back to you.

What are some of the things you’ve—you know, a skill that you try to concentrate on when you’re actually listening to someone? 'Cause I know when we’re—as we all do—we’re hearing someone talk and we think we know the answer already, but we have to suppress that.

[00:30:22] Cindy James: So again, the body language—if I’m speaking with you and I’m sitting like this—

[00:30:26] Tracy Hayes: The arms crossed?

[00:30:27] Cindy James: Right. Yeah, yeah. Or you know, just nonchalant. Versus me sitting up like I’m doing right now with you—this whole time I've been—

[00:30:36] Tracy Hayes: Yep, that’s right.

[00:30:37] Cindy James: —this whole time I’ve been doing it. I’m sitting like this. I look you in the eye.

[00:30:41] Tracy Hayes: Yep.

[00:30:41] Cindy James: I'm not looking around. I'm not distracted. I am notorious for writing things down. I will write—I'm a writer. I like—

[00:30:52] Tracy Hayes: So you're taking notes while they're talking?

[00:30:54] Cindy James: I'm taking notes.

[00:30:55] Cindy James: I'm making lists, mental notes as well. I think also helping make them feel at ease. Right. So it's a whole personality thing.

[00:31:03] Tracy Hayes: Body language does a lot of that.

[00:31:05] Cindy James: Yes. Where they trust you. And that's the thing that gets me about real estate. You can go to the pre-licensing course and you can take all these courses, but what is not taught is your innate-ness in dealing with people.

[00:31:19] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:20] Cindy James: Because every transaction is not about, “Oh, I just have to sell a house,” or “Oh, I just have to buy a house.” There's a story. There is a story of why they're selling or why they're buying. And I’m gonna tell you—some of the situations that...

There was a situation where I met with my client, and I could tell there’s sadness. Again, I’m watching her—

[00:31:40] Cindy James: —she’s not saying she’s sad, but I can see there’s something behind. And I got to the question about, “So why are you wanting to move where you’re at?” They were renting—“move from where you’re at and buy a home.”

[00:31:58] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:59] Cindy James: And what she told me took me aback. And I tried not to let that show.

[00:32:05] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:32:06] Cindy James: But the sadness I was seeing was that her son almost died in the home that they’re in. Right? She was able to revive him. And that’s why they were looking—to leave. Just bad memories and her urgency.

[00:32:18] Cindy James: She said, “I can’t go into that room anymore.” And that put a totally different perspective to me, as an agent, on how I was going to work that transaction.

[00:32:29] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:30] Cindy James: Completely different. And then it got to where she was really getting desperate. Like—it was back when the market was insane, where people were paying crazy money. And she was VA. It was VA. Nobody—for whatever reason—they were excluding VA as a financing option that the seller...

[00:32:45] Tracy Hayes: People should be sued for that.

[00:32:46] Cindy James: It was—it was...

[00:32:48] Cindy James: It saddened me. As a veteran’s daughter, it added just another layer of like, “Really?”

[00:32:54] Cindy James: But we got super creative. She was going to—I mean, there were houses—it was a... there were nightmare homes. I said, “Well, okay.”

So I had to stop and pause several times for her and say, “Okay, you’re wanting to put an offer on this house. This is not the house for you. I know it’s not the house for you.”

I said, “It’s desperation. Because you want to get out of this one—for emotional reasons, whatever.”

I said, “Let me try one more thing.”

[00:33:20] Cindy James: And what I did is I went to Facebook, looking for “three bedroom, two bath, VA—

[00:33:30] Tracy Hayes: Friendly.

[00:33:31] Cindy James: —friendly.” Mm-hmm. And I’ll be darned if that day we did not get someone from my Facebook page who said, “You know what? I got married several years ago. We rented our house. My husband’s military. We rented the house. We’re just about to put it on the market.”

Contacted that person. The funny thing—God has...

[00:33:47] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Oh yeah. Very...

[00:33:49] Tracy Hayes: I’m with you.

[00:33:50] Cindy James: ...very—I’m religious. And I thought, God has a way of doing things.

[00:33:54] Cindy James: The funny thing was—the two of them, my buyer and the seller, all knew each other. From the same place—the gym that the buyer owned.

[00:34:03] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:34:03] Cindy James: So it was like connecting the dots.

So I guess when you're saying, “What skills are used?” Just reading people.

[00:34:12] Cindy James: You know, back in the corporate world, you go into a meeting—you have to read that room, and you better read it well. You know, who’s in there, why they’re in there, what their goal is—do they have an agenda? Type of thing. So that’s one.

I think the other thing too is, you have to be very strict with your time. Right? So tomorrow—I already know what my day looks like. I already know what’s on my plate.

[00:34:36] Cindy James: Working with people—that gives them a sense of, “This person’s got their act together.” Right? “They know what they’re doing. They’re structured. They have a plan. They have...”

So those are all things that I learned within the corporate world. Having plans. Having goals.

[00:34:51] Cindy James: I don’t think agents have goals. I don’t think we do a good job of sitting down and saying, “Okay, what are my goals for the next 30 days? The next 60 days? The next year? Five years out? What’s my goal?”

[00:35:02] Tracy Hayes: I think that it’s not just agents. I think that is... I could think about myself. Because what it does is when you put your goal out—you have to reverse engineer your goal. Right?

“Alright, I want to do X amount in sales.” Well that means—okay, what do you gotta do to do that? “Well, I gotta make so many contacts.”

“Okay, well, how many days do I got? I guess I have to make so many…”

[00:35:22] Tracy Hayes: So it actually sets up your schedule.

[00:35:24] Cindy James: That’s right.

[00:35:25] Tracy Hayes: And starts doing that. And that’s where—I think—people, that’s why they don’t bother with the goal.

[00:36:00] Tracy Hayes: Because, you know, I guess, you know—the why and all that in there—but I want to circle back to, you know, you were being empathetic, right? That person had that tragedy in their house, and your empathy—right?

Which I'm probably the worst at. It's not that I don't care, I just don't express it in my—or I don't probe into... Now I'll probe into their financials: "Hey, where's that money coming from?"

[00:36:26] Tracy Hayes: You know, that kind of thing. But when you hear someone tell you a story that they really don't have to tell you—because it’s a personal story—but they’re telling you. They're opening up. And a lot of times they just met you. They haven’t even—you know—telling you something they sometimes don’t even tell their best friend they’ve known forever, or even their mom or sister or something. But they’re opening up to you.

Do you ever step back and think, “Why are they telling me this?” Because she didn’t really have to tell you that.

[00:36:26] Cindy James: So a comment I get a lot—a lot—is, “You are so personable. You walk into a room and you just have a way of making people feel comfortable.” And I get that a lot. It’s quite interesting.

Because I don’t try. It is just my being natural. It’s just my natural. I am a very empathetic person. I mean, I’ve cried with people. I’ve laughed with people. First-time homebuyers are my favorite, because as I’m handing them the keys, I’m like almost in tears.

[00:37:00] Cindy James: Right? Just because I’m so joyous for them—because I know what this means. Right? Because I’ve been there. But I’m genuine. I don’t put up a front. I don’t pretend I’m perfect—Lord, I’m not. Ask my husband.

I’m very genuine. At the end of the day, I’m there to help solve a problem. I’m there to help a client achieve a goal. For whatever reason they have that goal or whatever reason they’re wanting to do what they’re doing. Right?

I’ve got someone right now in St. Johns County—“Hey, you wanna come have dinner with us?” It’s her and her two daughters. I’m like...

[00:37:40] Cindy James: We become—I had another one invite me to her wedding. Another person invited me to his son’s graduation. You become—and to your point, and I have thought about this. I said, think to myself, “What is it? What is that quality that I have?” But then I don’t question it. Because I’m like, “Whatever it is, you’re doing it.”

It’s just genuine. But I really believe that the main thing is, I come—and when I meet with you—I sit and have a conversation. Like, “Let’s just have a cup of coffee and chat.”

[00:37:58] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:59] Cindy James: I had someone in Lake City—I went and met with her in person. I didn’t want to do an over-the-phone introductory thing. Right? Now, she was a referral. So the person that referred her knew me very well.

And I kid you not when I tell you—we sat there for about an hour and a half before we even started talking about listing her home. She had so much baggage and so much to just get off.

When I got there, she texted me, “Hey, when you come in, come into the garage door.” I’m like, okay. Well, when I come in, the house is dark. And I’m like, “Where are you?” She goes, “Just—just come over to my bedroom.”

[00:38:30] Cindy James: She was in a dark room. The TV was on. She had like a recliner that I don’t think she ever moved out of.

[00:38:45] Tracy Hayes: She was handicapped in a way? Or she just—

[00:38:48] Cindy James: No. Just—no. She was... she had gotten—her husband left her.

[00:38:50] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:51] Cindy James: She was getting divorced. She loved, loved, loved her home. And it got to the point that she had to sell her home.

[00:38:58] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:38:59] Cindy James: Which is why I was there. She was just in a point of depression.

[00:39:02] Cindy James: Depression, yeah. Right. So as a realtor, you’re also somewhat of a counselor.

But what I find is, if you just listen—again, back—circle back to the very first thing. Listen. There’s so much more there. And I’m not a probing person, especially when it comes to personal stuff.

[00:39:20] Cindy James: I’ll probe all there is I need to about the home—what are you looking for, what size, what square footage, what neighborhood, you know, all of that. Right? But I’ve just never been—which is odd, because being an empathetic person, you would think I would ask personal—but we just have conversations.

So, “How’s it going?” And one thing leads to another, before you know it, they’ve done spilled.

[00:39:38] Tracy Hayes: In sales—when you're actually trying to sell a product, whether you're selling a car or a bed or whatever it is, where they can get it somewhere else—but you're trying to close ‘em. You’re trying to close that person right there in front of you.

[00:39:50] Tracy Hayes: Right? You know, you listen for buying signs, you listen for things that you can—um—it’s not a negative thing. But real estate’s a little different. You're not trying to close that person right there and then. Obviously, maybe if you're competing to try to get the listing agreement or something like that.

But if you’re listening, a lot of times they’re telling you what you need to show them, what they’re still missing before they can say, “Yes, I’m ready to buy.”

[00:40:18] Tracy Hayes: Right? But would you agree in real estate, probably 90% of the listening is really to the long-term goal of winning this advocate?

I think we were talking about goals a little bit. I don’t think enough agents have long-term goals. They’re in the business and they’re really only thinking 30 to 90 days in advance, is about it. When the realization—that that person in front of you is a billboard that you're going to have walking around for who knows how long—

What good can you paint this billboard and make it look great, so that everybody driving up and down that person’s street is going to know that Cindy is their real estate agent?

[00:41:00] Tracy Hayes: And Cindy’s the best real estate agent. That person’s just out there—

[00:41:03] Cindy James: Yep.

[00:41:04] Tracy Hayes: Every barbecue they’re telling about Cindy.

[00:41:06] Tracy Hayes: Right? Or anyone brings up real estate. And I think, you know, like you said—being empathetic and listening—I think if we probably did a test or were a fly on the wall to all the great agents, they are all doing that.

Because the reason why their business is blown up is because they have all these walking billboards all over the place of all their past clients.

[00:41:29] Cindy James: That’s correct. I’m gonna tell you—over half my business now: referrals.

[00:41:32] Cindy James: Over half my business are referrals. And I just got one this weekend. It was someone I worked with—which I... not to get off topic—but the other thing is: staying top of mind.

[00:41:39] Cindy James: Right? So, social media.

[00:41:41] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Well, you gotta keep reminding the billboards that you're still here. So you can’t talk to ‘em all the time.

[00:41:46] Cindy James: That’s correct, yeah. So I just got one this weekend, where this person—who I used to work with a long time ago—contacted me several years ago and said, “Hey listen, so I live in this property and the person next to me has this property.” And I forgot exactly how the scenario went, but...

[00:42:00] Cindy James: He wanted to see what information I could find out about the property. He wanted to try to offer to buy it. It wasn’t for sale, but he wanted to offer to buy it.

So again, I’m not looking—can’t believe I’m gonna say this, but this is the truth—I wasn’t looking like, “Oh, I gotta snag this person so I can get him to buy this property.” I provided value.

[00:42:18] Cindy James: I went, looked up the information, told him what I was able to find, gave him my perspective on the best way to handle what he was trying to do, and that was that.

[00:42:35] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:35] Cindy James: Well, he decided not to purchase. But guess what I created in the meantime? Because I did provide value, he contacted me this week.

“Hey listen, there’s this guy that I worked with at Blue Cross long ago. He’s looking to sell his house. I gave him your contact information.”

So I didn’t have a transaction with the initial person, but I provided value.

[00:43:00] Cindy James: To me, it’s about providing value. Those walking—you’re absolutely right—walking billboards.

Like I said, most of my business now—over half—is referrals. And referrals not just from people you’ve done business with in the past, but people that see you on social media and see how authentic you are.

[00:43:18] Tracy Hayes: Yes.

[00:43:19] Cindy James: Right. Because you know, like on social media right now, I have a company that will—and there are companies out there that will post for you. I do not like it. I literally cut it down to one post a week for them to do for me.

[00:43:31] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:43:32] Cindy James: Because that’s not authentic.

[00:43:33] Tracy Hayes: No, it’s not.

[00:43:34] Cindy James: I put on a video of me helping a client, or of me—whatever—something personal.

[00:43:39] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:43:40] Cindy James: It—

[00:43:41] Tracy Hayes: Yeah, it blows out of the water. Because there's... the ads have increased on all the social media platforms. I mean, you go on, and whether it's TikTok, Instagram, YouTube—whatever—the ad revenue, they’ve got so many people now that are engaged in that phone and they're looking at it, and they're throwing so many ads in there.

And if you throw an ad-like thing, which a lot of that... I think, to me, people could see this static post—they're like... I mean, they just see it as an ad. You might not even really be considered an ad, but that’s what they see.

[00:44:00] Tracy Hayes: Now it's you, and your face, and you're saying something—or maybe your picture behind it with some sort of statement—they're stopping and actually going, “Oh, that’s... yeah, that's...”

[00:44:20] Cindy James: They can relate.

[00:44:21] Tracy Hayes: Yes.

[00:44:22] Cindy James: And they can relate, relate, relate. And, you know, I just—a thought popped into my mind when you were talking about the corporate world, how it's helped me in real estate.

The one thing that I never thought about in the beginning when I first became a realtor—but I have been using it tremendously—is data. Right?

[00:44:39] Cindy James: So when you’re a Six Sigma Black Belt, Six Sigma is all about data, right? So I had a home that I was listing, and I thought to myself, where can I get data around this as far as casting a wider net for potential buyers?

[00:44:55] Cindy James: So I went and did research—because data, right? I went and did research and I said, “Okay, this is when people were really moving to Florida.” I said, “Okay, so let’s think about: where are most from? What state are—

[00:45:09] Tracy Hayes: Right. Most people moving from?

[00:45:10] Cindy James: Yeah. New York was number one, California was number two, New Jersey the other.

So then I said, “I’m going to do a very targeted marketing—

[00:45:22] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:45:22] Cindy James: —to New York, to California, and to New Jersey.” Right?

[00:45:26] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:45:27] Cindy James: Again, I mean, I’m sure there are agents that do that. I was thinking—again—more from a corporate data: how can I have data work for me to be more effective?

[00:45:41] Tracy Hayes: I don’t think enough are doing it, actually. You really are the first person—I can say maybe one other person—that I’ve ever had on that said, “Hey, I’m using targeted Facebook ads.” And it’s inexpensive.

And you know, not even doing it in the neighborhoods... and the greatest agents that are out there—I’ve had Krista Mashore on—she’s a funnel person. She’s running targeted ads to neighborhoods.

[00:46:00] Tracy Hayes: 'Cause she wants to own those neighborhoods. She has five or six—actually, I think her brother runs real estate now 'cause she’s running the marketing side—but she targets those everybody. So it went from the old postcards...

You know, 'cause everyone’s like, “Oh well, you know what? Those old postcards—if you kept sending them out every quarter, month, or whatever—and for years...”

[00:46:19] Tracy Hayes: You got deals off it. They paid for themselves. Trust me—they paid for themselves. But you gotta be consistent.

[00:46:24] Tracy Hayes: Now the modern age is doing Facebook targeted ads. So everybody in that neighborhood is seeing your face and your listing. “And I’ve got another one over here.” And you’re doing it. But you gotta do it consistently. It can’t be just a one-stop.

Everyone’s into the instant gratification.

Tell us a little bit about the construction and renovation business that you have—and then obviously how you're working that into the real estate, or how one, you know, works off the other.

[00:46:55] Cindy James: So I leverage my construction a lot. Again, I really try to—

[00:47:00] Tracy Hayes: I assume your husband is the construction side. Am I right?

[00:47:02] Cindy James: No, no, no—he is not.

[00:47:03] Tracy Hayes: No, he’s not? Okay, all right. Then it’s funny because—

[00:47:04] Cindy James: I get that a lot. Because—

[00:47:06] Tracy Hayes: That is—there are a lot of those around where, yeah, the husband or boyfriend or whatever is...

[00:47:09] Cindy James: Yeah, no. Leave it up to me to be unconventional.

[00:47:11] Cindy James: No. Actually, when I wanted to move from Riverside to Jacksonville Beach, I saw someone on social media and was following them. They were in construction and I contacted them to come do my repairs for me—to get the house ready. And they came to do my repairs.

[00:47:28] Tracy Hayes: Okay.

[00:47:28] Cindy James: And this is how I actually got into construction. So as we’re chatting—I had, again, had the opportunity to leave the corporate world. I had this chunk of money that I got and I thought, “What have you always wanted to do?”

[00:47:40] Cindy James: I’ve always wanted to invest in properties.

[00:47:44] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:44] Cindy James: So I told them, I said, “Listen, I want to buy houses”—and this was before I became a realtor—“I want to buy houses. Can I hire you to do the improvements? And then I’ll sell it. And then I’ll buy another one.”

He goes, “Yeah. But actually, you know—I do that.”

I said, “No...?”

He goes, “Yeah. Matter of fact, I bought one—paid cash for the house—but now I don’t have the funds to do the renovations. Can I show it to you?”

I said, “Sure.”

He goes and shows it to me.

[00:48:00] Cindy James: I said, “How much do you need?” He told me, and I said, “Okay.” So we’re going to the bank for me to invest—I was going to be an investor—to invest in it.

He goes, “You know what? I was about to close shop.” He’s with the fire department. And he goes, “I was about to close shop. This is, you know, like a hobby for me and I don’t have the business background, yada, yada.”

He said, “I see you have an MBA.” He kind of did his homework on me.

[00:48:22] Cindy James: He goes, “I see you have an MBA and I see you’ve been in corporate like forever. Would you be interested in partnering with me?”

And I thought by partnering he meant like hiring me to consult. No. He literally signed over half of the business to me.

[00:48:36] Cindy James: So then what I did—I brought on the business side. Right? With an MBA, I got—I did all the basics, got all that settled. And then I worked for like three months to get that done.

[00:49:00] Cindy James: Then on one—whatever year it was—I became part owner. So I would go to job sites. Loved it. Loved going to job sites and actually working—not like I had a lot of skills, but I felt like I was helping.

[00:49:08] Tracy Hayes: Contributing, yeah.

[00:49:10] Cindy James: So absolutely loved it. My family couldn’t believe it because they’re like, “Cindy?!” This is how my family knows me, right? They don’t know me with my hair up, sweating, with work boots on or whatever. Right. And I loved it. Anyhow...

So, we hired an agent to sell that home once it was done. And in the meantime, I had bought another one and we started working there. So I’m learning as I’m going, right?

[00:49:34] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[00:49:34] Cindy James: Next thing I know, I was like, “Wait a minute, why don’t I become my own agent?” We can reinvest the commission piece of it, right? So that’s how I got involved.

But I loved real estate so much that I talked to my business partner—and I’m gonna say the reason it works, he’s not my husband—but the reason it works is we both bring a lot to the table. And I respect him for what he brings, and he respects me for what I bring.

[00:50:00] Cindy James: So it’s like the yin to the yang type thing.

[00:50:02] Cindy James: He calls me the buzzkill. 'Cause he’s always like, “Let’s do this! Let’s do this! Let’s do this!” And I’m thinking, “Liability, liability, liability.” The buzzkill. I’m like, “Okay, but hey—we’re not being sued for anything.” But anyhow...

So I ended up becoming a realtor, buying and selling our own homes. And to get back to your question—sorry, I kind of diverted.

[00:50:24] Tracy Hayes: No, that was perfect. We need to know that.

[00:50:26] Cindy James: So when I came around to it, I can take a client to a home—I’ll tell them—like, there was a situation, somebody—they loved, loved the home. And I said, “Guys,”—again, the buzzkill—not that I wanna be a buzzkill, but I said, “Guys…”

They loved it. We’re out in the backyard. I said, “Do y’all notice anything about the backyard?”

“No.”

I said, “If you look, the main road is right here, and then the yard slopes down, and then you have your house…”

[00:50:54] Tracy Hayes: The water runoff.

[00:50:55] Cindy James: I said, “The water’s gonna run off—it’s gonna come set against your foundation. That’s gonna be a problem.”

[00:51:00] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:00] Cindy James: That is a customer for life. I talked them out of buying a house.

[00:51:04] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:51:05] Cindy James: First of all, you know—and they know—that my best interest is them. I will talk you out of buying a house if it’s not the right thing to do.

[00:51:10] Cindy James: I’ll tell you two or three times. Now, if you still want to buy it—then it’s on you.

[00:51:14] Tracy Hayes: Well then we need to put a big French drain in.

[00:51:16] Cindy James: Yeah. Something!

[00:51:18] Cindy James: Yeah, and I did—I explained that. I said, “You can do a sump pump, you can do this, you can do that.” And they’re like, “Yeah, no.”

We ended up finding another home they absolutely loved.

[00:51:29] Cindy James: But—because I look at things through the lens of a contractor. And because I have—I’ve been burned a couple times on my own properties.

[00:51:36] Tracy Hayes: Bought a couple money pits.

[00:51:38] Cindy James: Yeah. Structural. You know, I bought this house where—it was off grade—and the kitchen floor kind of sloped. I’m like, “Oh, that’s not a problem. I’ll just float the floor.” This was my second home, so it was early on. “I’ll just float the floor. Not a problem.”

Well, inspection came, and got up underneath, and they’re like, “Yeah... so that beam underneath needs to be replaced.”

[00:52:00] Cindy James: Because what’s causing the floor to slope was—there was water damage.

[00:52:02] Tracy Hayes: And the wood got soft.

[00:52:05] Cindy James: Yep. $8,000 less at the closing table I was out. Never make that mistake again.

[00:52:10] Cindy James: So now I’m looking for structural. So I’ve learned a lot, but I add a lot of value.

The other one is when people want to buy a home, and they’ll say, “How much do you think it would be to remodel this kitchen or remodel this bathroom, or to do this, or to do that?” And I have those numbers in my head.

[00:52:25] Cindy James: Because I do it every day.

[00:52:27] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:52:28] Cindy James: Which helps inform them on whether or not they want to buy and what an appropriate offer price would be.

[00:52:32] Tracy Hayes: Well, I really think that’s a talent. You know, not every agent unfortunately can have that—because obviously you’re experiencing it in real time.

[00:52:40] Tracy Hayes: But there’s so many homes out there, and from what I understand right now, a lot of buyers—they want turnkey.

[00:52:47] Tracy Hayes: They don’t want to go, “What could I make of this house if I buy it?” It needs updates. A little older, so we need to do the bathrooms, need to do the kitchen. Maybe over time. Maybe before they even move in.

And you know, obviously we’re out here—as a lender—we’re promoting renovation products everywhere. We’ve got all these renovation products, all these renovation loans that they can do, but people aren’t getting into them because...

[00:53:00] Tracy Hayes: There’s still opportunity. There’s so much more upswing when you’re able to get into that house that needs a little bit of work. And if you can do some on your own—obviously you can sweat equity.

[00:53:08] Tracy Hayes: And then, you can borrow money to get the contractor to come in and really do the fine-tunes and really build some equity wealth in their home in just a matter of a few short years—no matter what the market is, really.

[00:53:21] Tracy Hayes: And so, you having the eyes for that—when you walk into a house and say, “You know, this is the location you want. It’s got this, it’s got that. There’s only one address with this piece, this dirt—everything’s great.”

“Yeah, the kitchen—or maybe we need to move this wall out so you can have a bigger closet,” or whatever like that.

[00:53:36] Tracy Hayes: You already can kind of spill into them—it’s not that big of a deal.

[00:53:38] Cindy James: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. I had a buyer, and she insisted—absolutely insisted—that it have a carport...

[00:54:00] Tracy Hayes: Because it didn’t have anything at all?

[00:54:05] Cindy James: Well, whatever house—any house—that she looked at, she said it had to have a carport. It has to have a carport. Not a garage—a carport.

[00:54:12] Tracy Hayes: A carport or a garage?

[00:54:13] Cindy James: Either one. Okay. But I had asked her—she veered more into the carport though—but I had asked her, I said, “So, you know, what’s driving that?” She goes, “Well, I want—”

[00:54:21] Tracy Hayes: That’s a great question to make, right?

[00:54:23] Cindy James: Mm-hmm. “I wanna make it into an apartment. I wanna be able to turn it into additional living space, into an apartment where I can, you know, charge rent, blah, blah, blah, but I can still live in the house.”

So we ended up finding one for her. And the other day—made me so happy—the other day she sends me a video. And she says hi—and she was a Spanish speaker too. I posted it, but I kinda had to do a translation so people could understand what she was saying.

But anyway, she videoed the front of the house, where she had gotten it painted, made it real pretty, she had landscaping. Then she came around...

[00:55:00] Cindy James: Now this one was a carport that had been quasi-transformed already. So she goes, “I wanted to share this with you because you knew my vision when we were looking.”

[00:55:10] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[00:55:10] Cindy James: And that made me feel so happy, right? So she opens it, and she goes, “So we designed it the way you recommended. We extended this, we moved this, we did this, we’re gonna do this.”

And she’s probably—I wanna say—about 60% done with it up there. But it was one of those situations where I was able to help her envision. Now, inside of the house itself did need some work, but this was her bigger driver.

[00:55:43] Tracy Hayes: And this is an off-the-wall question, you may not have any comment on it. But I imagine being in construction—and I think, as you know, the affordability of homes is down—California is doing a big thing on the accessory dwelling unit.

[00:55:54] Cindy James: Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:55:55] Tracy Hayes: Those opportunities are out there. And then obviously working with someone like you as an agent can find the right home, obviously understand the zoning—can we go above that garage? Whatever that thing is. Or hey, there’s that detached garage out here—what can we do with that?

If we got a renovation loan and we put a mother-in-law suite on top of that... You know, the possibilities that are there. Because I really—I think we, you know—you go up to say, you know, I’ve lived in Michigan, that’s all over the place. And especially in small-town America, the accessory dwelling units are there because they’re needed.

Young people need—there’s no apartment complexes—so they need there. And then apartment complexes are not cheap. They’re on a—we have such a demand.

[00:56:44] Cindy James: Yes.

[00:56:44] Tracy Hayes: Affordable housing. The apartments are high too. And of course obviously as a homeowner, like this lady I’m sure was thinking—she was offsetting her cost of that home with renting that accessory dwelling unit out.

[00:56:51] Cindy James: Yep. She was a first-time home buyer. It was just her and her children. So, very limited income. And that—that’s what was driving her decision.

One—and it was interesting too—that this person, I started working with her two years prior. But we could not get her financed.

[00:57:06] Cindy James: She had some—but I kept in touch with her. The lender said, “These are the things you need to fix.” And she was serious. She went and did exactly what they told her. And, you know, here two years...

[00:57:20] Tracy Hayes: Those are great people—you love working with people like that. They take your advice, and they go at it.

[00:57:24] Cindy James: Yes. Yeah. I’m gonna say it’s a little scary because people—and it kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier—you’re like, “Well, you know, what is it about you that makes people just open up?”

[00:57:35] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:57:36] Cindy James: The other thing that I’ve noticed as a realtor—and I told this to my husband the other day—I said, “You know, it’s astonishing to me how trusting people are.” Like, and I don’t think...

[00:57:46] Tracy Hayes: They’re thirsting for it.

[00:57:48] Cindy James: Yes.

[00:57:48] Tracy Hayes: It’s—oh my gosh, Cindy—you’re the water on their sand. And they’re thirsting for someone they can trust in.

[00:57:55] Tracy Hayes: And you—as you said these—other people have made comments about when you come in the room, you are that figure that they immediately are able to show that it has integrity and so forth, and they can trust in you.

[00:58:07] Cindy James: Yes. Yeah. And—I’m not gonna say burden—a big responsibility. Right?

[00:58:12] Cindy James: So if my game’s here—when that person’s trusting you explicitly, 100%, with everything—I find a way to get here...

[00:58:22] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:23] Cindy James: For that client. Yeah. Because you cannot let them down. I mean, it’s a huge responsibility.

And that was again one of the things that I didn’t really think about before I was an agent. Right? People think agents—open houses, open houses.

[00:58:38] Cindy James: No, no. That’s not what we do. There’s a lot that we do.

[00:58:43] Tracy Hayes: Well there’s a—you know, I’m sure you can relate this to your corporate world—people have to rely on other people to do things for them.

[00:58:50] Tracy Hayes: I mean, they’re not construction, renovation—you know—have an eye for that or whatever. It’s not their field. They don’t—they just don’t do. But in corporate America, as you had a project to be done, whether you were the leader of the project or you were one of the troops executing the project, they had to rely on you, and you had to rely on them that they’re going to go do their job—until they prove you differently.

[00:59:09] Tracy Hayes: And I think in the home-buying process—it’s just an example—there are people that openly admit that they don’t want to act like they’re smart enough, not to go ask their father-in-law for advice if they’re not in the business.

[00:59:20] Tracy Hayes: Right? They understand you as the professional—’cause you’ve come across that way—and that trusting—and they give themselves to you. Say, “Help me buy a home. What do I need to do?”

[00:59:30] Tracy Hayes: And that to me is one of the most—flattering, for lack of a better word—but inspirational.

[01:00:00] Tracy Hayes: I think that that—the high that you get when people really put their trust in you—and then it really does put a little bit of pressure. You want to go above and beyond, but it’s a good, a good adrenaline rush.

I want to kind of wind up with this. There's something that I'm working on deep. I’ve been—say, I’ve said it several times—I’m using AI right now with all the transcripts. I wanna put a book together with all the guests that I’ve had on, and all the stories where people come from.

Obviously I’ve got a chapter for all my non—well, Puerto Rico is not a non-U.S. citizen, but I get it too. You’re close—almost. But I know I’ve had—I don’t know if you know Jocelyn—she grew up in Puerto Rico. She actually was born in New York, but she moved to Puerto Rico when she was an infant and her family’s from Puerto Rico. She didn’t know English when she came to the States.

You were learning English where the school you were going to.

[01:00:51] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:52] Tracy Hayes: So it wasn’t—not everyone was being taught the same thing in Puerto Rico.

[01:00:55] Cindy James: Right.

[01:00:56] Tracy Hayes: But anyway, grit is the term I want to come out. If you ever read Grit by Angela Duckworth—I’ve mentioned it on the show—but it’s a great book. But I feel real estate agents really have a level of grit. Because there is opening that garage door, and when you open that garage door and you saw all that trash in there, you probably wanted to punch a hole in the wall at the moment.

[01:01:16] Cindy James: Right.

[01:01:16] Tracy Hayes: You might’ve even screamed. But that thought went through there. But then you dug in, and you understood this is, hey—alright, but this is what’s gotta happen, and we gotta do it.

[01:01:26] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:27] Tracy Hayes: But you’ve been probably—you know—fell on your face, punched in your gut in corporate America. But obviously we’re talking about in real estate, or even some of the money pits in the renovations—"oh my God, I found out something." But you chalked it up to learning and you moved on. But I imagine a flash of, "why am I doing it?" came across your screen.

[01:01:32] Cindy James: No, not—not my—as long as I’m making—you know, I’m in the plus.

[01:01:36] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:01:37] Cindy James: And I do love it. I love real estate. I love everything about real estate.

[01:01:41] Tracy Hayes: Well, I’m gonna ask you that question here directly. I’m gonna ask you a question. So I believe—my listeners know—I believe you have to have an LLC to get through it. And that’s not a limited liability company, although you may need to have that.

[01:01:52] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:53] Tracy Hayes: You need to have Love, you need to be able to Laugh, and then you need to be Consistent.

So my three questions. The first one is the easy one, as you’re leading into: Why do you love real estate?

[01:02:03] Cindy James: From different aspects. But I would probably say—you know, 'cause investments is a different reason why I love that versus why I love being a realtor, right?

[01:02:10] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:11] Cindy James: So from being a realtor—like, when I worked at Blue Cross, right? I worked my way up through the company. I was satisfied, and I felt like I had a passion up to a certain point. And then after that—the "why am I here, why am I doing this?" I mean, I don’t love what I’m doing. I did a great job.

[01:02:30] Tracy Hayes: That’s just you.

[01:02:31] Cindy James: Just the way I am.

[01:02:32] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:32] Cindy James: But I’m like, I’m not really making a difference. 'Cause I wasn’t working with customers face-to-face. I was behind the scenes.

[01:02:37] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:02:38] Cindy James: With real estate, you’re making a difference to people’s lives.

[01:02:42] Tracy Hayes: And you’re seeing that instant reaction.

[01:02:44] Cindy James: Yes. That is—yes. That—it is my passion.

I also get a high when—like, in negotiations. I consider myself to be a very strong negotiator. And it’s like, okay, I already have a plan. We’re gonna do this. I’m gonna do this, this, and this. I’m gonna—

[01:02:58] Tracy Hayes: And when that plan executes?

[01:03:00] Cindy James: Yeah.

[01:03:00] Tracy Hayes: It’s like being a coach—describe a play—and when that play works...

[01:03:07] Cindy James: Yes. So—but those are my two—I’m gonna say—the two biggest thrills and the passion behind it.

Investments, it’s—the money’s great, you know, the profit. But I love seeing a house. Right now, we’re doing one in Springfield.

[01:03:22] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:23] Cindy James: It’s a hundred years old. I am ecstatic about getting started on this, right? Because it’s like—

[01:03:29] Tracy Hayes: You can see what it’s gonna look like. The potential.

[01:03:31] Cindy James: The potential of this home. My dream was to go into an underdeveloped area and remodel the entire neighborhood. That’s my dream.

But these bigger—these big investors come in and start buying them. But I’m like, okay, I’ll get...

[01:03:45] Tracy Hayes: Well, they have the same vision too. They understand what they’re doing.

[01:03:48] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:48] Tracy Hayes: One house at a time or whatever. They are slowly transitioning that area.

[01:03:52] Cindy James: Yes.

[01:03:52] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:03:53] Cindy James: So those—they’re my—the two—I would say my two number one reasons.

[01:03:56] Tracy Hayes: Alright. This one throws off. So, the laughter part—and I take this from my own personal life experiences and grit—and I look back at times where I have fallen on my face, punched in the gut, or like, “Oh my God, can I overcome this mountain?”

[01:04:11] Tracy Hayes: And today we look back—our career—and we laugh at those moments.

[01:04:14] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:04:15] Tracy Hayes: Can you—preferably if there was something in real estate, even in your renovations—where, I mean, like you hit this—something just really negative happened, and you had to take that step. You took that step back, and you’re like, “Oh my God. Why is this happening? Why?” You know—“He’s doing it for a reason,” right?

We took that step back. Or maybe—I mean, like you said—it’s “Oh, is real estate for me?” And then you shook it off and drove on.

[01:04:42] Tracy Hayes: And now today you laugh about it. And when similar situations happen—'cause they consistently happen in our lives—He throws us another curveball, and we overcome it.

[01:04:50] Tracy Hayes: Can you think of a situation you’ve had where it really, really kind of set you—knocked you to your knees, so to speak? But now you laugh it off because you look back at all the things you’ve accomplished in your life, and how many times you have been set back and you’ve overcome, and you’re at where you’re at. That yeah, He might’ve just knocked the wind out of you for that moment...

[01:05:14] Cindy James: I can’t—I can’t really think of anything. And the reason I say that is, you know, in corporate—you had scorecards, right?

[01:05:20] Cindy James: You had all your goals—I mean, all your metrics, right? And they were either red or green.

[01:05:29] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:29] Cindy James: And I guess I was brought up in a culture where they say, "embrace the red."

[01:05:33] Tracy Hayes: Right. Because if you don't—they have a different term for it, but yeah.

[01:05:37] Cindy James: Okay. They call it "embrace the red." Now, whether or not they really... well, not whether or not—no, they didn’t. It was one of those things—

[01:05:43] Tracy Hayes: I think the Navy SEALs, they call it "embrace the suck."

[01:05:45] Cindy James: Yes, yes.

[01:05:46] Tracy Hayes: All the things that suck.

[01:05:48] Cindy James: Yeah. So this "embrace the red" was—the theory behind it was, you fall down, you got a red, right?

[01:05:53] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:54] Cindy James: You didn’t meet a metric. Don’t just move on. What can I learn from it? How can I make it better? And you move on.

So I’ve never been—and we all fail. I mean, social media gives you a different... and that’s what I’m gonna say I had to work on. Because I would see these people, and you embraced it. They do this and this and this, and I’m like, "Oh my gosh. I just absolutely sucked," because I’m comparing.

But then I thought, well hold on a minute—this is social media. No one tells of their red.

[01:06:31] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:06:31] Cindy James: No one tells what didn’t go well. It’s the positives.

And I’m gonna say, I also have someone at home—my husband—who is a very, very strong Christian. And he’s the type of person where—he’s a man of few words, unlike me—a man of few words, but very practical.

And he’s like, “Cindy, what happened? Did you learn something from it? Move on.” Just like that.

And so I think, just between having someone that’s like an anchor for me at home and that supports me no matter what, and just growing up in corporate America—just, failure is going to happen. There’s—you know—being upset or sulking or, “Oh man...” doesn’t help. What helps is, “Okay, what am I gonna do about it?”

[01:07:05] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. You know, like I said, if you listen to the Navy SEALs and all those guys, they embrace the suck. That’s—you’ll hear them actually use that phrase.

I like that a lot: "play through the foul." Because you can relate it to sports. You know, when I’m coaching my son’s basketball team—you missed a shot, play on.

[01:07:21] Cindy James: That’s right.

[01:07:22] Tracy Hayes: It is not over. Now, if you go—no one cares if you missed a shot and you run and get your own rebound—they forget you missed the shot.

[01:07:29] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:30] Tracy Hayes: If you miss the shot, go down and stop them defensively and come back with the ball—they forget about that you missed the shot.

But if you miss the shot and put your head down and mope and—you know, blah blah—back up... next play. It’s the next play.

And I think that’s the attitude you have. You're in—it's the next play. You’re not out just because you got a red.

[01:07:52] Cindy James: That’s right.

[01:07:53] Tracy Hayes: Because that would really... I mean, yeah, I could see some people really getting depressed if they did something that—you know—cost them their job or something, whatever it is, or they lost a deal or something.

That’s something—yeah, you might want to get up—but even if they lost a deal and you’re still walking and talking and, you know, you still have food on the table that night—next.

And I think that’s what I’m reading—the attitude that you have there—and that is really the... again, personal development and everything, that’s what all the top people say: fail, fail, fail. They’ll tell you—keep failing. Keep failing, keep failing. Fail, fail—

[01:08:22] Cindy James: Fail fast. Fail, fail fast. Right?

[01:08:24] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:25] Cindy James: Because look—I mean, look at... I love sports. Look at Michael Jordan.

[01:08:31] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:32] Cindy James: Did you see his stats? Insane. He’s like, “I lost at this. I lost at this. I lost this. I did the—” I mean, all these bad things. I never knew anything about that—

[01:08:40] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:08:41] Cindy James: —until I saw his biography or read his book.

[01:08:42] Tracy Hayes: Right. How well he talks—that phrase—how many shots he missed. You know, he scored all these points, but how many shots did he have to take to get those scores up?

[01:08:49] Cindy James: Yeah. That’s an example of exactly what you’re talking about.

[01:08:52] Tracy Hayes: Because if someone shoots in the NBA—if they shoot 50% from the floor—they’re awesome. People don’t realize—

[01:08:58] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:59] Tracy Hayes: —if you actually look at the stats, you know. But they’ve gotta drive on. And it’s the next play. It’s the next shot.

[01:09:04] Cindy James: That’s right.

[01:09:05] Tracy Hayes: It’s the next—it’s the next thing. And then—so the “C” in my LLC?

[01:09:09] Cindy James: Uh-huh.

[01:09:10] Tracy Hayes: It’s consistency. What would you say—and specifically about being a real estate agent, and the clients that you’re working with, and handing buyers and sellers and so forth—what do you think you’re doing consistently?

And this may adjust over time—it probably has. Again, 'cause you’re always plan, do, and review, right? You’re always going back and looking at what you did and improve.

But what do you think is one of the consistent things that you’re doing, whether it’s on a daily, weekly basis in your marketing or just in your business, that you think moves the needle for you?

[01:09:38] Cindy James: So from a consistency—I would say there’s a couple of things.

One is continuous education. You’ve got to continuously keep up to date on the laws, on technology. So it’s just every single day. Every day.

[01:09:54] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:09:55] Cindy James: The other thing, and probably just as important, is staying in contact with your sphere, with your clients.

Whether it’s—I have my CRM, I’ve got them A, B, C, D.

[01:10:11] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:11] Cindy James: Right? They’re categorized.

[01:10:13] Tracy Hayes: Right. My A’s are hot to trots. They’re ready to buy now or sell now. But—

[01:10:14] Cindy James: Everyone in my CRM will be touched a minimum of once a quarter, right?

[01:10:18] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:19] Cindy James: So like, my D's will be once a quarter. Everybody else is, you know, more often. So I think being consistent in your communications, consistent in your processes—right?

[01:10:31] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:10:31] Cindy James: You have to standardize—again, my continuous improvement. You have to standardize your processes. Being consistent every single... you have to show up.

[01:10:41] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:42] Cindy James: You have to show up every single day.

[01:10:43] Tracy Hayes: Well, I think when we’re talking about the processes, there’s no way to measure what to improve if you aren’t measuring what you’re doing. So if you are, like you said, hey, my A's are called once a week, B's are called every other week, C's or D's are called every quarter—whatever it is—and you’re making those calls... “Oh, my business isn’t moving forward,” or “I’m getting a lot of business. Where am I getting a lot of business?” Getting a lot of referrals from my B's.

[01:11:05] Cindy James: That’s right.

[01:11:06] Tracy Hayes: And I’m constantly—well, maybe I need to move my D's up to B's or to C's and contact them one extra time a quarter.

[01:11:13] Cindy James: Right.

[01:11:13] Tracy Hayes: You can’t measure that. You can’t do that unless you have some sort of consistency or regimen to go back every, you know, period of time—whatever it is—every quarter, every month, or whatever it is to measure and go, “Where’s that business coming from?”

[01:11:27] Cindy James: Yes. And it’s interesting actually that you’re saying that because one of the things that I—not necessarily struggle, and I think all agents deal with—is where do you put your marketing dollars? Right?

So I kid you not, once a month, when I’m doing my—you know—comparing expenses to my budget, I say, “Okay, well, I did this and I’ve done it for six months and I really haven’t gotten any leads.”

[01:11:51] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:11:52] Cindy James: Strike that out. Where am I gonna put those funds?

[01:11:56] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:11:57] Cindy James: And then the ones where I have gotten leads? That’s where I’m gonna start—

[01:12:00] Tracy Hayes: Put more money into it.

[01:12:01] Cindy James: That’s correct.

[01:12:02] Tracy Hayes: Yeah.

[01:12:02] Cindy James: Yeah, that’s right. So I’m constantly—again, from a consistency standpoint—I’m always looking at my marketing: What’s working? What’s not working? What’s effective? What’s not effective?

And one of the biggest challenges I think as a realtor is we are inundated. I mean, everybody’s coming to you: “You want to be in this magazine? We can do this, we can do this.”

Let me tell you what I’ve done with that. The last person that called me, I said, “What’s your performance guarantee?” Or—“What?”

[01:12:34] Tracy Hayes: Right?

[01:12:34] Cindy James: “What’s a performance guarantee?” I said, “I’m gonna give you X amount of dollars. What are you gonna guarantee me?”

[01:12:40] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:12:41] Cindy James: No one ever has it.

[01:12:42] Tracy Hayes: Oh.

[01:12:43] Cindy James: “More visibility.” I said, “Okay, I don’t need more visibility.” You know?

[01:12:47] Tracy Hayes: Well, really you’re making a lot of money—you have to decide whether you’re doing it for charity. You know, the school wants you to advertise in this program or something—that’s charity.

[01:12:56] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:57] Tracy Hayes: If you get a call off your banner on the school fence, that’s icing on the cake.

[01:13:00] Cindy James: That’s correct.

[01:13:01] Tracy Hayes: Yeah. Next year, you’re gonna buy it next year because you got a lead. And if you could—and they can’t guarantee that—it’s charity. You have to chart it off: “I’m giving to the school. If I get a lead, great. If I don’t get a lead, I am—that doesn’t care because I’m giving the money to the school 'cause that’s what I want to do.”

[01:13:18] Cindy James: Yeah. Right. And which—you know, one of the things that I do—so, closing gifts, right? You go to closing, you give your client a gift.

Well, that was so nerve-racking to me 'cause I’m like, I don’t know what to buy people. I’m a horrible gift giver—I’m just gonna say it out there. Horrible.

And I thought, you know, instead of giving people something that I don’t even know they’re even gonna like—do you know what I did?

[01:13:42] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:43] Cindy James: I—every single one of my clients—as we get closer to closing, about a week before—I said, “Listen, so I donate a portion of my commission off of this transaction to different organizations, to different charities. And I always do it to whoever my client wants me—I always let my clients select who they want the donations to go to.”

[01:14:00] Tracy Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[01:14:01] Cindy James: So I’ve done K9s for Warriors, I’ve done breast cancer... I’ve done a lot of organizations, a lot of...

[01:14:08] Tracy Hayes: Right.

[01:14:08] Cindy James: So the other thing too, as far as being a realtor—it’s given me an opportunity by doing this to give back to the community. And not only to the community, but to the organizations that my clients really believe in.

[01:14:20] Tracy Hayes: Right. Right. Well, you know, as a real estate agent, I’ve said numerous times—they are the pinnacle of our housing industry, which is a whole, you know—big part of our economy, our GDP. Housing is.

Because when you build a house, there’s so many different—or even just moving.

[01:14:35] Cindy James: Yes.

[01:14:36] Tracy Hayes: You know, people are buying new appliances, they’re doing this, buying new furniture, whatever—all these things are happening. And it’s the real estate agent that’s actually the pinnacle of it.

So the community has to be one of the top things that the real estate agent needs to be concerned with.

Let’s finish here 'cause we’re gonna go to an AI lunch and learn in a little bit and talk about using AI for home search.

But you were—you mentioned, you know, all these different things to do. And a lot of agents are probably, “Oh my God, there’s just one more thing I gotta do.”

Well, let me tell you what—I’m working on a project right now with the podcast. Taking every transcript and actually—what it is, this gentleman who’s actually doing this AI seminar said, “You know what? You should have a bot on your website where people who want to be a real estate agent, or are a real estate agent, want advice.”

Because you have all this content—269 episodes of real estate agents pouring in all their information. And they can go on the bot and do it. And I’m like, “Huh, okay.”

And he kind of gave an idea. And then I went to ChatGPT to say, “How can I create this bot? What do I need to do?”

“Well, we need to create this metadata spreadsheet for it.” “Well, how do you do it?”

“Well, we need to upload the transcript, and then—” it’s creating this metadata spreadsheet for me. So it knows this—the spreadsheet's behind it. It knows where to go to get the transcript. It knows where to go and get—so it gave me the columns that it needs.

Well, it wants to know, obviously, what episode, who the guest was, the title of the podcast, the transcript. It wants the YouTube link, it wants the Apple Podcast link, what brokerage they work for, blah, blah, blah—you know, gives all these columns that I need on the spreadsheet.

I don’t need to go to the spreadsheet and actually cut and paste and cut and paste and cut and paste.

I can go in to ChatGPT and say, “I need to create this spreadsheet. I’m doing this marketing. This is what I’m doing. And these are the things I want information on. Is there other information you think we should do?”

[01:16:00] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:16:01] Tracy Hayes: And it will give you suggestions. But you don’t have to sit there and pull up the spreadsheet and fill in the blanks all the time.

Now, I will say this: When you update the spreadsheet in ChatGPT, you say, “Okay, give me the link to the updated spreadsheet.” It will give you the link. Save that link.

Because if it go—days go by, weeks go by—and you go back and say, “Hey, I want to add to that spreadsheet,” it’s gonna say, “Oh yeah, we kind of reset everything you need.”

[01:17:00] Tracy Hayes: So you still have it. You'll say, "Here it is. Here's the last version we had. I need to add a new client—Sally. This is what we did." Whatever information you wanna do, and you just keep adding to it, and it'll fill in all those blanks for you by you just telling it the story.

[01:17:18] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:17:19] Tracy Hayes: You don't have to sit there and make sure every block is filled in. So if you wanna start tracking, start using AI and let it track that stuff for you. Then go back and have it evaluated, have it create graphs for you—whatever it is—so you can actually look at it and say, “What am I doing in my business?”

“Hey, I've been doing this—here's my advertising campaigns.” And then you start filling in where the customer came from—it'll analyze the data and tell you exactly where to spend your money.

[01:17:45] Cindy James: Mm-hmm.

[01:17:46] Tracy Hayes: So AI is there. It's incredible.

[01:17:49] Cindy James: Yes, it is.

[01:17:50] Tracy Hayes: It is incredible. And of course, we can go on—that's a whole other subject—but I appreciate you coming on today.

[01:17:56] Cindy James: You're very welcome.

[01:17:57] Tracy Hayes: It was a great show.

[01:17:58] Cindy James: Thank you.

[01:17:59] Tracy Hayes: We could definitely talk for hours. But I think some of the bottom-line things that hopefully anyone listening takes away are: go back to that listening—and listening while being empathetic. And then obviously your corporate background—I can't teach everybody that one.

But I think if people have questions, to reach out to you, or maybe they’re running into some renovations—if you’re out there and you don’t have a construction company, let alone a full house construction or a renovation expert—call on Cindy. ’Cause she can help you from a realtor’s eyes.

Go in and maybe teach you some of these things. And then maybe attach to your renovation company. Say, “Hey Cindy, you taught me these things. These people want to do that bathroom. Cool. Can your company come over and give me a bid on that?” Boom. You know?

[01:18:46] Cindy James: Yeah.

[01:18:47] Tracy Hayes: And things start to happen. But you gotta collaborate.

[01:18:50] Cindy James: Yes, absolutely.

[01:18:51] Tracy Hayes: Thanks for coming on today.

[01:18:52] Cindy James: Thank you for having me.

[01:18:53] Tracy Hayes: Thank you